ahhh shit. this is getting to be too much. i was learning quite a bit from the exchange. aside from that, they're doing exactly what zizek is talking about. it's the dialectic he's talking about except that chuck0 isn't being secret about his leadership, he's claiming right out in the open that he's influential. and then trying to deny it...while a minion will help him in his denial by asserting that chuck0 is a personally good guy coz he allows others to do things in the movement because he's just that kinda guy. charismatic leadership and authority in the making... remember, my statement was that they don't have this leadership, yet. in the meantime, dennis is kicking and screaming about it all (me too, under the guise of sociological analysis; not unlike zizek) and arguing that pretenses to democratic, decentralized decision making yadda yadda are just that... pretenses, which is, itself, what is part of charismatic movements that are rooted in resistence to entrenched patrimonial, tradition, rationalized authority systems.
kelley