>Macdonald Stainsby wrote:
>
>>Your "Lenin" baiting is disappointing. I would expect better from
>>Lou Proyect's supposed arch nemisis than this silly mirror image of
>>his "argument" tactics.
>
>Did I say anything about Lenin? I was reacting to your rather
>unsubtle style of thought and argument. If you think that's
>anti-Leninist, that's your conclusion, not mine.
At 6:30 PM -0400 9/6/01, Doug Henwood wrote:
>>Macdonald Stainsby wrote:
>>Until *Israel* is gone, dead and buried
>
>Eh? Are you referring to a generalized bonfire of the nation-states,
>or are you singling out Israel?
>
>Doug
At 9:10 AM -0400 9/7/01, Doug Henwood wrote:
>This is strange. You concede that the U.S., Canada, and Australia
>should all go - France too? Japan? India? - but then return to the
>theme of Israel as being particularly malignant. That sort of thing
>looks bad. Maybe it's because you're a Leninist that you can't do
>the anti-statist routine very convincingly, so instead of calling
>for an end to nation-states in general, we get... what? I'm not
>sure. And how can the state go without having any consequences for
>the people involved?
>
>Doug
>At 12:54 PM -0400 9/7/01, Doug Henwood wrote:
>>The "mere" granting of equal rights to
>>Palestinians would in effect be a dissolution of the state of Israel.
>>Any defense of the continued existence of the _state_ of Israel is a
>>defense of apartheid hiding behind the misuse of language.
>
>Granting of equal rights to Palestinians? Within what context? An
>independent Palestinian state? To Palestinians and other Arabs
>living within Israel?
>
>You can't seriously believe that dissolving the state of Israel -
>and I have no idea what you really mean by its dissolution "in
>effect" (will they still have an army? taxing authority? control
>over land use?) - would have no consequences for the people who live
>there. Israel exists. it's not going away anytime soon. The South
>African state was transformed to end apartheid, but it didn't
>dissolve, even "in effect."
>
>Doug
On one hand you seem to be saying that all leftists must consciously struggle against all nationalisms, regardless of contents of given nationalisms, advancing a consistently anti-statist position. On the other hand, you seem to be saying to Palestinians, "Israel exists & will not go away -- deal with it," thus legitimating the nationalisms of Zionists while negating the nationalisms of Palestinians, at best perhaps advocating "a two-state solution," at worst merely recognizing the "facts on the ground" -- including the Zionist state & U.S. imperialism that keeps it alive. Is your position coherent?
Yoshie