<HTML><< Oppressor Nationalisms and Oppressed Nationalisms are two different things entirely.  Nationalisms of oppressed peoples can be progressive, since often class oppression took the form of national oppression, so class struggle took the form of national struggle (as Samir Amin, among opthers, has pointed out).  As Said, among others has pointed out, Zionism came out of an era of imperialism and colonialism and nationalist struggles--and chose to model itself after the imperialists, not with Third World Nationalist Struggles. sorry, I don't think your argument holds a drop of water. >> </BLOCKQUOTE> Sitting here in the desert of anti-Zionism argumentation, sipping a whole canteen of water from my argument. The Stalinists used to say of the Trotskyists, with some justification, they support socialism everywhere but where it exists. This distinction of oppressor and oppressed nationalisms strikes me as a piece of this Trotskyist worldview: you support nationalism everywhere but where it succeeds in establishing its own nation-state. Of course, Zionism is not exactly the only nationalist ideology to have created its own nation-state. But, here on LBO-Talk and elsewhere on the Left, I don't see regular denunciations of Hutu nationalism, which just happened to use state power to conduct a genocide against the Tutsis in Rwanda, as racist; nor do I see regular denunciations of Serbian nationalism, after the ethnic cleansing conducted in its name in Bosnia, Croatia and Kosova, as racist [to the contrary, I see depressingly regular defenses of its racism]; nor I do see regular denunciations of Russian nationalism for its scorched earth policy in Chechyna as racist; nor do I see denunciations of Turkish nationalism for its continuing wars against Kurds and Armenians as racist; nor do I see regular denunciations of Vietnamese and Chinese nationalism, as they waged nationalist wars with each other, as racist; nor do I see regular denunciations of Chinese nationalism in its suppression of national minorities, as racist; nor do I see denunciations of Latvian, Lithuanian, Ukrainian and Estonian nationalisms as they purge Russians as racist; nor do I see denunciations of Arab Sudanese nationalism as its enslaves and conducts a genocidal war against the African Sudanese as racist; nor do I see regular denunciations of the Syrian nationalists for its massacres of tens of thousands of minority Muslims in Aleppo and Hamah as racist; nor do I see regular denunciations of the campaigns of Nigerian nationalism against the Ogoni and Ibo peoples as racist; and so on. But barely a day goes by when Jewish nationalism, in the form of Zionism, is not so singled out. How is it different? Not because it actually holds state power, but because it is Jewish. Anti-zionism as it is regularly represented here, is, in my humble goy opinion, anti-semitic and racist, singling out Jewish nationalism for criticisms that could and should be applied to every nationalism. Leo Casey United Federation of Teachers 260 Park Avenue South New York, New York 10010-7272 (212-598-6869) Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never has, and it never will. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation are men who want crops without plowing the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its waters. -- Frederick Douglass -- </HTML>