<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3>The accounts Carrol provides of the origins of human language and the
<BR>development of infants are just plain wrong, and ignorant of the work down in
<BR>the disciplines of anthropology and psychology on both subjects. But I have a
<BR>more fundamental objection to the argument he makes. The unspoken premise of
<BR>his argument, that the 'truth' of a phenomenon is to be found at its origin,
<BR>is classically teleological; it requires the assumption that the process is
<BR>one of the development of some pre-given essence. Such an essence is, of
<BR>course, present at the origin. For all of Carrol's genuflections before the
<BR>altar of materialism, this use of teleogy, with its notions of a pre-given
<BR>essence, is clearly idealist in the most fundamental sense.
<BR>
<BR>On the larger question of the so-called priority of matter over thought, my
<BR>position is this. The material world clearly exists independently of our
<BR>perception and conceptions of it. But our knowledge of that world is based on
<BR>our interactions with it, a process which requires thought. We can not know
<BR>the material world 'in itself,' that is, possess absolute knowledge of the
<BR>material world; our knowledge is always mediated by the discursive approach
<BR>we have to that world. There is no meaningful human action separate from
<BR>human intentionality of some sort, and thus, from human thought; reflex
<BR>action, such as breathing or reacting to discomfort or pain, are clearly of a
<BR>different nature, not pertinent to this issue. Thus, much of the rather crude
<BR>M-L-M philosophizing put forth by Carrol, with its embrace of a dualism of
<BR>matter and thought, is just besides the point.
<BR>
<BR>As to my comments on the 'rigor' and 'clarity' of Carrol's thought, I just
<BR>find it amazing how often he proclaims with great authority on subjects about
<BR>which he clearly knows very little, and on authors which he hasn't even read.
<BR>But when you are armed with the science of Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong
<BR>Thought, who needs anything else?
<BR>
<BR>Ravi:</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">when you say thought do you mean conscious reflection or just the chemical
<BR>activities in the brain that correspond to some action? of course i do not
<BR>suggest that conscious reflection consists of anything beyond chemical
<BR>activities in the brain (i.e., this is not a metaphysical question), but
<BR>that they are different kinds
<BR>of actions, probably. in day to day use of the language, i will propose,
<BR>the former (conscious reflection) is what is meant by thought. if you
<BR>agree, then do you still hold that thought precedes motion? that a baby
<BR>emerging from the womb thinks out its actions, in this conscious sense,
<BR>before it kicks its limbs and utters its first scream? please note that i
<BR>am not being facetious here, but only trying to nail down some of these
<BR>terms in a sense that i (and other lay people perhaps) might understand.
<BR>though i am not going to attempt it here, i think similar questions can be
<BR>raised regarding ritual, and to be a bit bolder, even about academic
<BR>learning, where one repeats processes over and over before a conscious
<BR>understanding and the capability to think about the matter emerges.
<BR>
<BR>i hope that you will not lable me too a fool for raising these questions,
<BR>though i will admit they are tentative and might not hence meet your
<BR>requirements of rigour or clarity!
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>Leo Casey
<BR>United Federation of Teachers
<BR>260 Park Avenue South
<BR>New York, New York 10010-7272 (212-598-6869)
<BR>
<BR>Power concedes nothing without a demand.
<BR>It never has, and it never will.
<BR>If there is no struggle, there is no progress.
<BR>Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation are men who
<BR>want crops without plowing the ground. They want rain without thunder and
<BR>lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its waters.
<BR><P ALIGN=CENTER>-- Frederick Douglass --
<BR>
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