>>
>>I'm not naive. But we do have:
>>
>>(1) Semi-competitive elections with freedom of association, not an
>>officially one party state.
>>
>>(2) Universal suffrage.
>>
>>(3) Extensive civil and political liberties (quite real).
>
>That's the [neo]liberal part
>
>>You cannot surpass me in the depth of my cynicism about the extent
>>to which the rich rule things...
>
>And that's the plutocracy.
>
>Where, pray tell, is the *democracy*?
OK, don't believe it, If you can't tell the difference between our situation and that of Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia, I can't make you. Democracy comes in degrees. Here it is possible, if very difficult, for ordinary people to influence the government, to oppose its policies effectively, to make some difference. That's the democracy. Everything you say about its limitations, I say in spades. That's why I am a socialist. I don't suppose there is anything more to say on the topic. You think I am naive and conservative. I think you are bitter and self-marginalized. That's life. Fact is, both of us are utterly marginal and off the left edge of the earth. jks
>
>Moreover:
>
>A corporation is an unambiguously plutocratic institution. But as
>a [infinitesmally small] shareholder I have all the rights you
>outline in your three points: I can vote to elect directors and
>associate with other shareholders to propose or oppose
>resolutions; all shareholders can vote; I can, individually or
>in association with other shareholders, express my views to
>the directors at any time and on any issue without fear of reprisal.
>And beyond that I have rights in regard to "my" corporation
>that don't exist in "your" liberal democracy: my vote is sure to
>be counted honestly, and I can go to the courts to sue "my"
>directors if they have lied to me about anything materially
>affecting my interests as a shareholder or even to enforce
>their "fiduciary responsibility" to exercise their power in
>the interest of the shareholders rather than in their own interest.
>But, of course, my vote counts exactly as little
>in the corporate as in the "liberal democratic" context.
>
>Shane Mage
>
>"Thunderbolt steers all
>things."
>
>Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64
>
>
>
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