>Nathan
>I could be convinced that the spoiler losses were offset by the gains, except there ae almost no gains, only losses from the strategy
-I think on this key point Nathan is right. Third parties are great if -they accomplish something. I think you need a mass movement first. -This does not mean supporting the Demos with time or money. But it means -staying out of electoral politics for the most part until you are large -enough to acocmplish something - and voting for the lesser evil until -you can run candidates of your own with a chance of winning greater than 0.
Gar hits on the real debate in my mind, which is the concrete issue of where to allocate time and resources between strategic electoral campaigning versus building mass movements. Since the stronger those mass movements are, the stronger the strength of progressive Dems, I generally see building unions and other groups with an institutional base as the key place to put ones time and effort. Elections are rarely decided in the last few weeks of frenetic campaigning and are usually decided, except in a hardful of competitive races, long before anyone files for election. The real key to electoral change is changing "facts on the ground"-- the vewpoints of citizens and building the networks to mobilize them on a continual basis.
The most misguided aspect of the Greens in my mind has always been their assumption that you can build a mass movement around electoral campaining, rather than the reverse being true. I've always said that the say the AFL-CIO and the NAACP walk out of the Dems to form a third party is the day I'd walk out with them, since that would mean there would be a real base to build campaigns and turnout around.
Without that mass base, the irony is that a supposedly anti-hierarchy movement like the Greens becomes totally dependent on leadership like Nader. This has been the fate of third parties throughout the 20th century (excepting the Socialist Party which had its labor and socialist base slowly degrading from Debs day). The Farmer-Labor Party rose and fell with LaFollette; the Progressive Party and the American Independent Party with their respective Wallaces; the Citizens Party with Barry Commoner, and the Reform Party with Perot.
-- Nathan Newman