> Well my criticism isn’t of one person and is not based upon reading the Post over someone’s shoulder on the subway. I have attended hundreds perhaps over a thousand hours of meetings run in this way.
> All majority white meetings incidentally. White youth from Austin are more comfortable in the consensus meeting in Boston than are the people of color activists let alone non-or as yet non activists of color from Boston. You talk about non-anarchist activists having to engage the “real thing†well I did just that for years, so in the end what do you do? Flame me (which I will get to below).
The race argument against consensus decision-making just doesn't wash. First of all, these groups are predominatly white for reasons other than the way meetings are held. Secondly, white activists tend to have more experience wokring in groups that use consensus.
> Clearly the problem is bigger than the process of the meeting.
Yes.
>However non-activists non-white and white if they have experience with meetings it is probably 12 step, PTA, church groups, etc. none of which to my knowledge employ this process. Is it more important to look at the way meetings were run over half a century ago across the Atlantic?
Across the Atlantic? People have been using consensus for thousands of years! Maybe they haven't been using twinkling for that long, but consensus wasn't invented by the anarchists.
>Is it more important to employ a process that makes these folks feel welcome or is it more important to make the members of the activist subculture from the other side of the continent feel welcome?
>
It's important to use a process that reflects the ends we are trying to accomplish at the same time we work on making new people feel welcome.
> <<<It’s pretty clear what you are talking about. You are trying to dismiss
> a time-honored way of making decisions by associating it with
> stereotypes about anti-capitalist activists.
>
> I hear that the New York Post is hiring. You should apply for a job
> covering protesters.>>>
>
> Again, my criticism of this type of process does not derive from a position paper from some pro-cop think tank. I’ve been to these sorts of meetings for years. Through the lentils, the jokes about lentils, the “Oh my god Chumbawamba is on the radio!†the trip to the Ethiopian restaurant at the end. It hasn’t been demonstrated to me that the use of this sort of process insures a more inclusive or more democratic movement.
It does insure a more inclusive and democratic movement. Have you heard about the anti-globalization movement? It runs on various forms of consensus and has rejected the old hierarchical forms of organization.
> Can you answer a qualified criticism without flaming someone?
No, not until you've bothered to do some reading or research on this issue.
:-P
> Anarchism if it is about anything it is about criticism, it certainly isn’t about program or strategy, so here is a criticism. How will you respond?
It's 2 am, I'll engage in flaming at this point, or, at least some silliness.
Anarchism is certainly about program and strategy. You don't think we have any strategy? OK, go believe that if you want. I'll continue working on strategy.
Incidentally, I went to some city council meeting today to do some research relating to one of our anarchist programs here in Washington.
Let's see, I spent 3 hours in Lord of the Rings and had to evacuate from a council meeting of D.C.'s housing authority because of a bomb threat. Right before I was going to testify and read them the riot act!
> Also regarding the job at the Post. I am currently under-employed (temping) and surprise, surprise! I hadn’t even considered applying at the post. This being the Left Business Observer listserv, it wouldn’t be moot to point out that there is a very good chance they have instituted a hiring freeze anyhow.
>
I wouldn't be surprised. I've been unemployed since last March and I haven't paid the rent this month.
Perhaps I will go apply at the Post.
<< Chuck0 >>
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"...ironically, perhaps, the best organised dissenters in the world today are anarchists, who are busily undermining capitalism while the rest of the left is still trying to form committees."
-- Jeremy Hardy, The Guardian (UK)