Tricky thing sarcasm - especially via email I guess.
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>
> CB: So, you are saying that the intelligentsia are
> the only smart and thinking people in society , and
> all non-intelligentsia are stupid.
I know I was being sarcastic, but I'm baffled by how you came to that conclusion. I don't, unlike you, think that the only intelligent people in this world are the "intelligensia".
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CB: This was my point to you. The intelligentsia of Russia in 1917 period were not the only intelligent people. There were very significant organic intellectuals in the Party .
I like my friends too much to think that. They like to think, ask questions and do their own thing to. They also like the freedom to tell people like you who believe (by what god given right I don't know) that they know what's best for them, to fuck off.
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CB: This is an inaccurate version of me. I'd probably be telling your friends the same thing because they were snobby toward me. The likely arrogant ones as between me and your friends ,is your friends.
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Built into all your statements is the assumption that only the intelligentsia would want freedom of speech and thought, because only they would be interested in criticism.
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CB: No, the Bolsheviks and other activists had lots of criticism going on. The issue was that after the revolution, promotion of bourgeois ideas would not be allowed. Just like after the American Revolution, one couldn't promote return to British rule, Toryism. Even the founders of the freedom of speech principle in the U.S. had a more sensible interpretation of that freedom than you do.
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Not only is this elitist (can the workers not think for themselves?
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CB; The workers have a new style of work, including in thinking. It is known as collectivism . Your emphasis on "thinking for yourself" is replaced by "thining for us" . That is the political approach after the revolution.
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What are they, production line robots), but its manifestly bollocks. If you actually talked to a few, or god forbid worked on a production line, you might realise that they have a diversity of opinions and interests. Some of them read books, some like punk rock. Given the history of the Soviet Union I think its a bit naive to assume this is going to change. Also people don't like having to look over their shoulder, and worry about what they say.
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CB: I know lots of workers. I read books with them. I live in Detroit. We still have more factory workers than just about anybody. You have shot off on such a warped version of who I am it is hard to make all the corrections. And it's getting kind of long.
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> > CB: This difference is one of the
> > issues in the underlying difference in our
> > assessment of philosophies. We say you have an
> > inferior conception of freedom and liberty to
> ours.
>
> I say you have a different conception of freedom and
> liberty for party leaders.
>
> ^^^^^^
>
> CB: You can say it. It doesn't make it true.
Well the party leader is in the privileged position of deciding what is allowed and what isn't. Whereas the rest of us poor schmucks have to follow the rules he sets down. Seems like they have more freedom.
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CB: I don't know too many workers who advocate anarchist structure for much that they are serious about accomplishing. I think it is you who unfamiliar with real workers, not I.
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> You are right. Marxist revolutionary do not sit
> around like the "smarter" intelligentsia
> contemplating whether there is truth . They operate
> on the presumption that Marx et al. discovered
> significant relative and applicable truths for this
> era, and that it is now time to unite theory and
> practice and get on with it. Don't you get that ?
> Have you read anything by Marx at all ?
What is it with you people? You're like christian fundamentalists. Can't you think for yourselves, or do you have to delegate everything to the higher authority of Marx?
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CB; Don't you realize what a tired, unoriginal, not thinking for yourself criticism this is of Marxism ? Can't you think for yourself ? Do you have to rely on this liberal dogmatic criticism of "Marxism like Chrisitani fundamentalists" . It is really simple minded and robot like. Workers don't go around blaming Marxism as being like Christianity. It is so refutable, and has been refuted so many times. It gets tiresome. It's like responding to little tin soldiers all wearing the same uniform. You sound like Chatty Kathy. Pull your string and the same broken record "criticism" of Marxism comes out.
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I'm an engineer. I have never come across any problem that one person has solved perfectly. The way to solutions is through discussion, trial and error, and a willingness to learn from one's mistakes. It certainly doesn't come from sitting cross legged in front of some leader and doing exactly what he says.
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CB; This is a really stupidly stereotypical liberal, "freethinker's" criticism of Marxism. You have to keep reciting it like a mantra to believe it because it is so out of whack of how Marxism has worked in reality. Marxism did not seize state power in so many countries by organizing a bunch of mindless workers. It organized increased consciousness among tens of millions, something your theory has not done when Marxism has.
> > CB: The only art or philosophy that would be
> > repressed would be that which was a weapon AGAINST
> > the revoluton.
>
> Like Eisenstein, Tarkovsky and any music that was
> too
> complex for Stalin to understand, you mean? Or the
> various non-political composers who were repressed
> under various Russian leaders post-Stalin.
>
> ^^^^^^^^^
>
> CB: Are you saying that I have made no criticisms of
> Stalin ?
It didn't just happen under Stalin. Plenty of non-political artists were oppressed. Personally I think that any revolution that can't withstand a bit of criticism clearly isn't worth very much.
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CB: The Communist revolution has been more critical/ self-critical than any bourgeois revolutions. You have no better track record than the SU in self-criticism. What criticism do you have of your movement ? Show me your self-criticism in your revolution
This reply is getting wrong. Better delay further criticism for now.
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