> The anarchists on the list at
>least do offer an alternative, as does Charles, but I don't find either the
>prospect of direct democracy run by consensus or a Khrushchevite police
>state attractive, the former, though, more than the latter.
>
>^^^^^^^^^
>
>CB: Justin , I offer as an alternative a Marxist-Leninist alternative which
>constitutes a more democratic society than what you propose. You are the
>one who proposes a police state, i.e. a liberal state which has a much
>longer and worse history of being a police state than Marxist states.
>Jefferson presided over a slaveowning , land grabbing liberal police state
>that was lasted for a couple of centuries, and owned slaves.
>
Well, since I said liberal democracy involves universal sufftrage and extensive civil and political liberties, Jefferson's America qualifies only as a very imperfect example. And if you think that America or any more or less liberal democracy has a worse record than Stalinist Russia or the PRC, heaven help you.
^^^^^^
CB: You are stuck with the real world record of liberal democracy, not your wish as to what it would be.
No heaven help you, since you are the one way off in fact. You fail to face the fact that your liberal democracy has a worse historical record than socialist democracy. America has a much worse record than Soviet Russia or the PRC. What are you thinking ? Oh I forgot , you think the Old South has some kind of progressive kernel, liberal democratic nostalgia for the peculiar institution.
^^^^
We are not on the same planet, and it aint me that's not on earth.
^^^^^
CB: Yes it is. You don't pay attention to what has actually happened on earth with liberal democracy, but substitute your wishes .
^^^^
_Me_, advocatea police state?
^^^^^^^
CB: It is much less likely that I would advocate a police state than that you would.
^^^^^^
I'ma kneejerk ACLUnik,
^^^^^^
CB: I'm a indefatiguable liberationist and revolutionist.
^^^^^
You're the one whgo wants to send in the cops to shut up the speech of people whose views you consider to be racist or counterrevolutionary,
^^^^^^^
CB: Correction, whose views are racist and fascist. And your protection of fascistic racists is a good example of how your liberalism bolsters reaction and repression. Liberalism is Twofacedness, and the one face is world historically repressive , more repressive than socialism.
^^^^^^^
and shoot professors who criticize the official Marxist line.
^^^^^^^
CB: Repress counterrevolutionaries without making special exceptions for professors who are counterrevolutionaries, as an elitist with anti-democratic, anti-revolutionary notions like you would.
^^^^^
I thought I was doing you a favor by calling you a Khushchevite, I take it back. I like Nikita betterthan that.
^^^^^^
CB: I like him better than I like you too. He was a Communist, a Marxist-Leninist. You are a bourgeois liberal, pretty much, a wrecker of Marx.