sex and the left

joanna bujes joanna.bujes at ebay.sun.com
Tue Oct 22 20:10:00 PDT 2002


At 09:24 PM 10/22/2002 -0400, Kelly wrote:
>what is the difference between someone's skills as a baker of apple pies
>and someone's skills providing hummers? what is the difference between you
>the consumer of them --in terms of integrity or sensibility lost--if you
>are buying a hot apple pie or buying a fuck?

I'm not opposed to anyone buying a fuck if that's what they want; I just wouldn't call it liberating--either to the buyer or the seller.


>clearly there must be because i'm sure worries about integrity and
>sensibility would not emerge were we discussing bakers, regardless as to
>whether they worked in 17th c. France, in an indie bakery in Berkeley, or
>at the Krispy Kreme factory in Raleigh.

It's not a question of what objects people make; it's a question of relations between people. I submit that prostitution is not a good relation between people.


> but i imagine
>it is Anthony's and others' goal (among other goals) to not have to listen
>to some leftish types imply that there is something special about sex such
>that the ONLY reason anyone can want to have paid-for sex or look at porn
>is because they are the warped products of capitalist ideology.

I didn't say any of that. Obviously, prostitution and porn predate capitalism by many thousands of years.


>i might
>even grant you that much of it is quite related to capitalist ideology, but
>the really obnoxious thing here is the presumption of some lofty position
>above the fray where you observe the plight of those poor others.

I didn't claim that lofty position; you assigned it to me. In previous posts I acknowledged that I found porn extremely effective. I have read my way through De Sade, Story of O, and Penthouse letters for less than philosophical reasons. But, once again, while that experience delivered the goods I was looking for at the time, I would never call it liberating. You can't get to freedom through a fantasy. You have to wake up. You can't get to freedom by treating other people as objects. You just can't.

Joanna



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