Given that the British and French have imperialist hsitories, and Italy had a recent bout of Facism in the century past.  there is also vichy, Palestine and Ireland from our British friends.  Swiss neutrality in the face of Hitler -- cudos for the bravery!  Imperial Japan: imperial China, you get the point.  Some of the actions taken by these nations were done with the imprametuer of the people, other actions less so. With that said: the First Amendment is something to be proud of.  So is the Fourteenth Amendment, the Sixth, the Fifth, the Fourrth.  You get the point. I am not a flag waver, but this waxing about a better place NOW ignores the horrors committed in the past. Europhiles forgive me on this, but everytime I hear about how charming or breath taking cathedrals and the like are in Europe I wanna gag.  Talk about built on the backs of the peasants!  We have that hear in the U.S. -- we (all of us) cannot turn our backs on our collective history which includes slavery. America ain't Number One; no where is.   Doug Henwood <dhenwood@panix.com> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">budge wrote: >On Fri, 31 May 2002 at 2:44pm Doug Henwood wrote: > >> kelley@pulpculture.org wrote: >> >> >so how is this 'Love America" to say this, doug? carrol? >> >> "Love America" is a bit of a caricature. But you seemed >> to think it important to profess patriotic feelings, and >> invoked your mother-in-law's reaction as something of a >> test. I don't know your m-i-l, but I don't feel any >> compulsion to shape my comments to please her. Convince, >> provoke, inspire thought, sure, but why should Chomsky >> or I or anyone have to play the God Bless America game? > >i don't think kelley was asking for that, but maybe i'm >wrong. but you seem to be bordering on the coxian with your >last sentence above. after all, it's carrol who is always &! gt! ;on about it how we shouldn't be worried about 'reaching out' >or 'convincing' people, i thought you disagreed. I said "convince...sure." What's Coxian about that? >do you not tailor your message differently for different >audiences? not write differently for the nation than you >might write on this list or your own newsletter? Yup. I wouldn't go on about imperialism if I were invited on CNN (the two times I was on that stupid network, I never used the word). I couldn't wax patriotic in ways I don't really feel. I would say there's much I admire about this country, and much I don't like very much. But global declarations of how this is the best or worst place on earth aren't very helpful or enlightening. >not turning down sex seems straightforward enough, i mean i >understand why, but why go on teevee? why waste your time, >if you're not interested in persuading? I am interested in per! su! ading. But one of the things I'd like to persuade people of is that this is not the Shining City on the Hill. Doug</BLOCKQUOTE> <hr size=1>Do You Yahoo!? <a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/welcome/*http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com">Yahoo!</a> - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup