<HTML>In a message dated 8/9/2002 8:06:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, chuck@tao.ca writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I'll grant that some forms of radical unions might provide the grounds for a workers struggle against capitalism. </BLOCKQUOTE> I'm glad to hear you say that, Chuck. Perhaps there is not as much antagonism here as we think there is, and we are simply coming from different perspectives. <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I think that these organizations would need to go through some radical changes in order to be effective.</BLOCKQUOTE> Exactly. I would be highly suspect of anyone who said that unions, in their present form, could affect radical change. They can't-- and that's why we need to work to build a movement against the bureaucracy from within the unions. The unions themselves contain the actual people and actual resources to get the job done. And, masses of real people and a massive amount of real resources will be crucial in any struggle against capitalism-- wouldn't you agree? <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> My personal preference would be for a strategy of networked economic disruption. This would be illegible to the state and the bosses and would be a strategy that would be hard to sell-out or corrupt.</BLOCKQUOTE> This is trickier than it seems, Chuck. We cannot just go into unions as non-members and get people, in a matter of an instant, to go against both their bosses and their corrupt union leadership. People are already walking a tightrope as it is-- they don't want to lose their jobs because their jobs are their only means of livelihood. People have families to support, health concerns, housing problems, etc., etc. <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Big business unions are not the answer, because they are not engaged in an ongoing fight against capitalism.</BLOCKQUOTE> But, there are hardly any "big business unions". The vast majority of workers in the United States are not organized into unions at all. A large, well funded, mass union movement is necessary before we can talk of taking on capitalism. You seem, above, to understand the importance of labor stoppage (i.e. "networked economic disruption"): Well, labor stoppages can't be organized by people who either a) have no job security, or b) have no job at all! Best, David</HTML>