[lbo-talk] Cuban HDI

[andie nachgeborenen]

No, Brad, I genuinely don't know what to think. I believe the Cubans are in tragic dilemma. If they did whjat you wanted they'd be replaced, Nicaraguan-style, at the immense cost to their people, the real gains of their revolution demolished, and shortly be reduced to the usual third world levels of misery and exploitation. You haven't addressed this, you don't deny it, so I assume you recognize it, and think the (brief) instantiation of the Enlightenment values we hold dear to be worth it. I'll note that societies like that, evenif nominally democracies, areusually pretty poor on the Enlightenment virtues. Nicaragua had more of them under the Sandinistas than it does now. On the other hand, if the Cubans carry on as they are doing now, they have a repressive and corrupt dictatorship that does awful thing like the present persecutions. I do not say that these are justified becuause of the real benefits of the revolution. But I cannot (as you seem to be able) lightly dismiss the benefits of the revolution in the circumstances.  I am also curious how far your civil libertarianism extends. Would you have supported the right of Bundists in America to speak freely, to meet with German embassy officials, to carry out propaganda lavishly funded by Nazi Germany, while the country was at war? (This is a more exact analogy than CPUSAers during the Cold War, because after all the USSR never attacked us, while we have invaded Cuba, carried out terrorist operations there, attempted to assassinate Castro, and still maintain an embargo.)  Do you think it makes any difference to the way Enlkightenment avlues are realized how much of a threat a country is under? (It does in American law.) jks

Brad DeLong <jbdelong at uclink.berkeley.edu> wrote:>Brad, you are not talking to an SWP defender of Castroism. I am a 
>critic of Castro's tyranny and repression. However, I also think 
>that the Cuban revolution has some significant accomplishments, and 
>has done better for the Cuban people than any likely alternative the 
>US would install. I have challenged you to explain why this is not 
>so. What I get from a Berkeley social scientist is overheated 
>rhetoric.
>
>The Cubans should adopt the American Bill of Rights... I'd like to 
>see that, but there is is the concern that the US would abuse an 
>open political process to swamp Cuba with right wing consultants, 
>propaganda, media spinmeisters, dirty tricks, and well-funded pet 
>Gusano or "dissident" candidates.

In other words, you would like to see the Cubans adopt the American 
Bill of Rights, but you wouldn't. The argument that 
democracy-is-a-good-thing-but-must-wait-until-the-next-crisis-is-surmounted 
was already hollow back at Kronstadt more than 80 years ago.

Brad DeLong
___________________________________
http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <../attachments/20030424/9491fbe5/attachment.htm>