Joanna
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>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Vietnam trade deficit to soar, central bank not worried (Ulhas Joglekar)
> 2. Re: Dull, dull, dull (was Re: [lbo-talk] Ann Coulter's Living) (Shane Taylor)
> 3. Re: Dull, dull, dull (was Re: [lbo-talk] Ann Coulter's Living) (Carrol Cox)
> 4. RES: [lbo-talk] Vietnam trade deficit to soar, central bank not worried (Alexandre Fenelon)
> 5. Re: Dull, dull, dull (joanna bujes)
> 6. Humor: an example (joanna bujes)
> 7. Re: Re: Dull, dull, dull (Carrol Cox)
> 8. Re: Dull, dull, dull (was Re: [lbo-talk] Ann Coulter's Living) (Brian Siano)
> 9. Webmaster Sherman Austin Gets 1 Year in Jail (Chuck0)
> 10. Re: Re: Dull, dull, dull (Chuck0)
> 11. Re: Webmaster Sherman Austin Gets 1 Year in Jail (Bill Bartlett)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 05:05:25 +0530
>From: Ulhas Joglekar <uvj at vsnl.com>
>To: lbo-talk <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
>Subject: [lbo-talk] Vietnam trade deficit to soar, central bank not worried
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>
>HindustanTimes.com
>
>Thursday, July 31, 2003
>
>Vietnam trade deficit to soar, central bank not worried
>
>Reuters
>Hanoi, July 31
>
>Vietnam said on Thursday it expected its 2003 trade deficit to jump nearly
>70 per cent to $4.7 billion, but the central bank said that posed no
>economic threat because of rising overseas remittance and capital inflows.
>Imports were forecast to grow 21.6 per cent to a record $24 billion and
>exports were likely to rise 15 per cent to $19.2-$19.3 billion, the Trade
>Ministry said in a report.
>
>"This year's trade deficit reaching around $4 billion is not a concern
>because experts have taken into account this figure when establishing
>Vietnam's trade balance payment," State Bank of Vietnam Deputy Governor
>Phung Khac Ke told Reuters.
>
>"With capital balance and overseas remittances on the rise, the overall
>balance payment this year could see a little surplus, and much better in
>comparison with last year," he said on the sidelines of a loan signing
>ceremony in Hanoi.
>
>Ke declined to provide any absolute figures.
>
>Central bank figures showed Vietnamese living overseas sent home a record
>$1.1 billion in the first half, up 12 per cent on a year earlier. The bank
>has forecast total remittances in 2003 would exceed last year's $2.4
>billion.
>
>On the capital inflow front, Vietnam has seen foreign direct investment in
>the first five months of the year rising six per cent to $900 million from a
>year earlier.
>
>The Trade Ministry report, published on its Web site (www.mot.gov.vn), said
>a surge in world prices of imported steel, oil products and machinery,
>coupled with higher domestic demand for the items, would boost the value of
>imports.
>
>Imports in the remaining five months of 2003 are forecast to rise to $10
>billion, against exports of nearly $8 billion, the report said. Vietnam
>posted a trade deficit of $2.77 billion in 2002.
>
>On Tuesday the Asian Development Bank forecast Vietnam's economy would grow
>6.9 per cent this year, second only in the region to 7.5 per cent growth in
>China.
>
>© Hindustan Times Ltd. 2003.
>Reproduction in any form is prohibited without prior permission
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 2
>To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 18:49:43 -0500
>Subject: Re: Dull, dull, dull (was Re: [lbo-talk] Ann Coulter's Living)
>From: Shane Taylor <s-t-t at juno.com>
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>
>budge asks:
>
>
>
>>So why *are* our magazines so damn dull?
>>
>>
>
>I think it's prudery. As in, "It's all so horrible, we have to be
>serious." Nonsense. Satire, parody, sarcasm, humor, wit, etc. -- all of
>these can trade in grim materials. Kubrick should have settled that
>decades ago.
>
>Brian mentions Sharia law as an example of the too horrible things we
>deal with. But theocracy is so absurd I don't get how you _can't_ laugh
>about it. I think that the left takes earnestness as a measure of
>commitment.
>
>Brian also mentions the left task of challenging the "conventional
>wisdom". True, but I see that as a playground, not a chore. Look at
>Zizek. He enjoys skewering this sort of thing. It's clearly a
>*pleasure* for him.
>
>Of course, I'm amused by listening to Michael "Savage" Weiner, so many
>lefties might think I'm certifiable. But Weiner obviously loves what he
>does...
>
>-- Shane
>
>
>________________________________________________________________
>The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
>Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
>Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 19:19:55 -0500
>From: Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu>
>To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>Subject: Re: Dull, dull, dull (was Re: [lbo-talk] Ann Coulter's Living)
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>
>
>
>Shane Taylor wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I think it's prudery. As in, "It's all so horrible, we have to be
>>serious." Nonsense. Satire, parody, sarcasm, humor, wit, etc. -- all of
>>these can trade in grim materials. Kubrick should have settled that
>>decades ago.
>>
>>
>>
>
>You are speaking as though you know not only the inner psychic secrets
>of 10s of thousands, perhaps 100s of thousands, of people, over decades,
>but _also_ know the inner psychic secrets which they share in common.
>
>Prove it.
>
>I maintain that the claim is self-evidently absurd, and the burden of
>proof, an enormous empirical and analytic burden, is on those who would
>make a claim so absurd on the face of it.
>
>Unless such proof can be provided, to make the claim is mere tomfoolery.
>+
>Carrol
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 4
>From: "Alexandre Fenelon" <afenelon at zaz.com.br>
>To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
>Subject: RES: [lbo-talk] Vietnam trade deficit to soar, central bank not worried
>Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:47:19 -0300
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>
>
>
>-----Mensagem original-----
>De: lbo-talk-admin at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-admin at lbo-talk.org]Em
>nome de Ulhas Joglekar
>Enviada em: segunda-feira, 4 de agosto de 2003 20:35
>Para: lbo-talk
>Assunto: [lbo-talk] Vietnam trade deficit to soar, central bank not
>worried
>
>
>HindustanTimes.com
>
>Thursday, July 31, 2003
>
>Vietnam trade deficit to soar, central bank not worried
>
>Reuters
>Hanoi, July 31
>
>Vietnam said on Thursday it expected its 2003 trade deficit to jump nearly
>70 per cent to $4.7 billion, but the central bank said that posed no
>economic threat because of rising overseas remittance and capital inflows.
>Imports were forecast to grow 21.6 per cent to a record $24 billion and
>exports were likely to rise 15 per cent to $19.2-$19.3 billion, the Trade
>Ministry said in a report.
>
>-Hmmmm.....I´ve already seen something like this.....
>
> Alexandre Fenelon
>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.505 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 30/07/03
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 18:05:20 -0700
>From: joanna bujes <jbujes at covad.net>
>To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>Subject: [lbo-talk] Re: Dull, dull, dull
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>
>Brian wrote:
>
> "Humor has to have some cruelty in it to be any good. Thus,
>right-wingers have the freedom to make fun of poor people, sick people,
>women, gays, blacks, Native Americans, and everything else. All we let
>ourselves do is make fun of people in power."
>
>I don't know about that. I'm not sure that humor has to have cruelty in it: "Did he say blessed are the cheesemakers?"....but it helps if it's funny. Terry Jones (I think that's who) has written some completely hillarious (and true) stuff about the war on Iraq and Bush's justifications.
>
>I think the "left" fails to be funny because:
>
>--it's impossible to be funny when you're self-righteous
>--humor requires creativity and there's plenty of sheepfulness on the left
>--humor requires a bit of relaxation, which is hard to come by if you're plugged into unrelenting activism and public displays of distress.
>
>"First you get down on your knees, fiddle with your rosaries, bend your head with great respect and genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!!!"
>
>I think humor is a great weapon -- for one thing, it makes the powerful look stupid and incompetent, which they largely are. Harping on the fact that they're evil and all-powerful only serves to scare people and to aggrandize the "evil-doers." Think about it: Bush and his cronies would much rather be hated than laughed at.
>
>DOW 36,000? No, DOW 536,789!!!
>
>...to humor!
>
>Joanna
>
>If you can't say FUCK, you can't say FUCK THE GOVERNMENT. (Lenny Bruce)
>
>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 18:15:29 -0700
>From: joanna bujes <jbujes at covad.net>
>To: lbo <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
>Subject: [lbo-talk] Humor: an example
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>
>
>
>I'm losing patience with my neighbours, Mr Bush
>
>Terry Jones
>Sunday January 26, 2003
>The Observer <http://www.observer.co.uk>
>
>I'm really excited by George Bush's latest reason for bombing Iraq: he's
>running out of patience. And so am I!
>
>For some time now I've been really pissed off with Mr Johnson, who lives
>a couple of doors down the street. Well, him and Mr Patel, who runs the
>health food shop. They both give me queer looks, and I'm sure Mr Johnson
>is planning something nasty for me, but so far I haven't been able to
>discover what. I've been round to his place a few times to see what he's
>up to, but he's got everything well hidden. That's how devious he is.
>
>As for Mr Patel, don't ask me how I know, I just know - from very good
>sources - that he is, in reality, a Mass Murderer. I have leafleted the
>street telling them that if we don't act first, he'll pick us off one by
>one.
>
>Some of my neighbours say, if I've got proof, why don't I go to the
>police? But that's simply ridiculous. The police will say that they need
>evidence of a crime with which to charge my neighbours.
>
>They'll come up with endless red tape and quibbling about the rights and
>wrongs of a pre-emptive strike and all the while Mr Johnson will be
>finalising his plans to do terrible things to me, while Mr Patel will be
>secretly murdering people. Since I'm the only one in the street with a
>decent range of automatic firearms, I reckon it's up to me to keep the
>peace. But until recently that's been a little difficult. Now, however,
>George W. Bush has made it clear that all I need to do is run out of
>patience, and then I can wade in and do whatever I want!
>
>And let's face it, Mr Bush's carefully thought-out policy towards Iraq
>is the only way to bring about international peace and security. The one
>certain way to stop Muslim fundamentalist suicide bombers targeting the
>US or the UK is to bomb a few Muslim countries that have never
>threatened us.
>
>That's why I want to blow up Mr Johnson's garage and kill his wife and
>children. Strike first! That'll teach him a lesson. Then he'll leave us
>in peace and stop peering at me in that totally unacceptable way.
>
>Mr Bush makes it clear that all he needs to know before bombing Iraq is
>that Saddam is a really nasty man and that he has weapons of mass
>destruction - even if no one can find them. I'm certain I've just as
>much justification for killing Mr Johnson's wife and children as Mr Bush
>has for bombing Iraq.
>
>Mr Bush's long-term aim is to make the world a safer place by
>eliminating 'rogue states' and 'terrorism'. It's such a clever long-term
>aim because how can you ever know when you've achieved it? How will Mr
>Bush know when he's wiped out all terrorists? When every single
>terrorist is dead? But then a terrorist is only a terrorist once he's
>committed an act of terror. What about would-be terrorists? These are
>the ones you really want to eliminate, since most of the known
>terrorists, being suicide bombers, have already eliminated themselves.
>
>Perhaps Mr Bush needs to wipe out everyone who could possibly be a
>future terrorist? Maybe he can't be sure he's achieved his objective
>until every Muslim fundamentalist is dead? But then some moderate
>Muslims might convert to fundamentalism. Maybe the only really safe
>thing to do would be for Mr Bush to eliminate all Muslims?
>
>It's the same in my street. Mr Johnson and Mr Patel are just the tip of
>the iceberg. There are dozens of other people in the street who I don't
>like and who - quite frankly - look at me in odd ways. No one will be
>really safe until I've wiped them all out.
>
>My wife says I might be going too far but I tell her I'm simply using
>the same logic as the President of the United States. That shuts her up.
>
>Like Mr Bush, I've run out of patience, and if that's a good enough
>reason for the President, it's good enough for me. I'm going to give the
>whole street two weeks - no, 10 days - to come out in the open and hand
>over all aliens and interplanetary hijackers, galactic outlaws and
>interstellar terrorist masterminds, and if they don't hand them over
>nicely and say 'Thank you', I'm going to bomb the entire street to
>kingdom come.
>
>It's just as sane as what George W. Bush is proposing - and, in contrast
>to what he's intending, my policy will destroy only one street.
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:40:35 -0500
>From: Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu>
>To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Re: Dull, dull, dull
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>
>This list is reasonably representative of a wide range of leftists. Is
>it humorless? Why? Why not? Jan & I noticed at conventions and
>conferences in the '60s that action was frequently blocked by debates
>over how the conference should conduct its business, how people should
>and should not speak, etc. In other words, with precisely the condition
>which this thread represents: talk about talk replacing substance. Then
>there would be long discussions of what it was that was causing long
>discussions. This, then, would lead to a growing sea of complaints about
>how "alienating" the conference was, with little if any recognition that
>the talk about alienation, like the talk about how to talk, was itself
>the source of alienation.
>
>What is achieved, concretely, by this conversation about the lack of
>humor and the causes of that lack? How does it contribute to the
>increased scintiallation of journals x, y, & z.
>
>And if these complaints are valid, why is it that the only people on the
>left who are able and/or willing to expend energy on the production of
>left literature are people who are too dull to provide that literature?
>How does it happen that the leftists who do have a great sense of hunmor
>and a powerful ability to write the way they think left writing should
>be done do not write or publish journals themselves?
>
>Is Seinfeld really the supreme model for attempts to change the world?
>Why? Why not?
>
>Carrol
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 8
>To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>Subject: Re: Dull, dull, dull (was Re: [lbo-talk] Ann Coulter's Living)
>From: Brian Siano <siano at mail.med.upenn.edu>
>Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 22:08:34 -0400
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>
>On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 19:19:55 -0500, Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Shane Taylor wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I think it's prudery. As in, "It's all so horrible, we have to be
>>>serious." Nonsense. Satire, parody, sarcasm, humor, wit, etc. -- all
>>>of
>>>these can trade in grim materials. Kubrick should have settled that
>>>decades ago.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>You are speaking as though you know not only the inner psychic secrets
>>of 10s of thousands, perhaps 100s of thousands, of people, over decades,
>>but _also_ know the inner psychic secrets which they share in common.
>>
>>Prove it.
>>
>>I maintain that the claim is self-evidently absurd, and the burden of
>>proof, an enormous empirical and analytic burden, is on those who would
>>make a claim so absurd on the face of it.
>>
>>Unless such proof can be provided, to make the claim is mere tomfoolery.
>>
>>
>
>Translation: "That's not funny."
>
>But seriously, folks. Carrol, I think you're raising a useless point here.
>We're discussing why the Left publications are so amazingly dull next to
>those of other factions. And to discuss this, we _have_ to speculate on the
>mind-sets and values of heaps'o'people. Can't be avoided, really. So it's a
>bit silly to jump on Shane for imprecision and lack of empirical data.
>Nobody expects this question to be answered by a Zogby poll and factor
>analysis from the MMPI.
>
>But I agree with Shane only so far. There's prudery and excessive
>moralization, but I don't think that's the complete answer. BTW, it
>occurred to me that the _Village Voice_, for whatever faults it has, is
>usually fun to read, so maybe we shouldn't be castigating ourselves too
>much for humorlessness.
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 23:01:14 -0400
>From: Chuck0 <chuck at mutualaid.org>
>To: Infoshop <infoshop-news at infoshop.org>
>CC: a-list <anarchy-list at lists.village.virginia.edu>, lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org,
> ALA Office for Intellectual Freedom List <alaoif at ala1.ala.org>
>Subject: [lbo-talk] Webmaster Sherman Austin Gets 1 Year in Jail
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>
>MESSAGE FROM CHANTEL G.
>insurgent at email.com
>
>http://www.la.indymedia.org
>08/04/2003
>Federal Injustice System
>
>SHERMAN AUSTIN SENTENCED TO ONE YEAR IN FEDERAL PRISON
>Sherman Austin, webmaster of RaisetheFist.com, was sentenced today,
>August 4, 2003, to one year in federal prison, with three years of
>probation. Judge Wilson shocked the courtroom when he went against the
>recommendation of not only the prosecution, but the FBI and the Justice
>Department, who had asked that Austin be sentenced to 4 months in
>prison, and 4 months in a half-way house, with 3 years of probation.
>
>Austin's probation stipulates, among other things, that (1) he cannot
>possess or access a computer of any kind without prior approval of his
>probation officer, (2) if his probation officer gives permission, the
>equipment is subject to monitoring and is subject to search and seizure
>at any time, without notice, (3) he cannot alter any of the software or
>hardware on any computer he uses, (4) he must surrender his phone, DSL,
>electric, and satellite bills, (5) he cannot associate with any person
>or group that seeks to change the government in any way (be that
>environmental, social justice, political, economic, etc.), and (6) he
>must pay over $2,000 in fines and restitution. Austin must surrender
>himself to the Federal Bureau of Prisons by September 3, 2003.
>
>For background information check out What the FBI Doesn't Want You to
>Know About RaisetheFist.com.
>
>More to come...
>
>
>Help free ALL political prisoners, 'they're in there for us, lets work
>hard out here for them'
>http://www.anarchistblackcross.org
>
>--------------------
>It's said that anarchists live in a world of dreams to come & do not see
>the things that happen today We see them too well, & in their true
>colors, and that's what makes us carry the hatchet into the forests of
>prejudices that beset us. --P.Kropotkin
>
>
>
>>La-anarchists mailing list
>>La-anarchists at lists.mutualaid.org
>>http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/la-anarchists
>>free hosting provided by http://www.mutualaid.org/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 23:07:26 -0400
>From: Chuck0 <chuck at mutualaid.org>
>To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Re: Dull, dull, dull
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>
>Carrol Cox wrote:
>
>
>
>>This list is reasonably representative of a wide range of leftists. Is
>>it humorless? Why? Why not? Jan & I noticed at conventions and
>>conferences in the '60s that action was frequently blocked by debates
>>over how the conference should conduct its business, how people should
>>and should not speak, etc. In other words, with precisely the condition
>>which this thread represents: talk about talk replacing substance. Then
>>there would be long discussions of what it was that was causing long
>>discussions. This, then, would lead to a growing sea of complaints about
>>how "alienating" the conference was, with little if any recognition that
>>the talk about alienation, like the talk about how to talk, was itself
>>the source of alienation.
>>
>>What is achieved, concretely, by this conversation about the lack of
>>humor and the causes of that lack? How does it contribute to the
>>increased scintiallation of journals x, y, & z.
>>
>>And if these complaints are valid, why is it that the only people on the
>>left who are able and/or willing to expend energy on the production of
>>left literature are people who are too dull to provide that literature?
>>How does it happen that the leftists who do have a great sense of hunmor
>>and a powerful ability to write the way they think left writing should
>>be done do not write or publish journals themselves?
>>
>>Is Seinfeld really the supreme model for attempts to change the world?
>>Why? Why not?
>>
>>
>
>You win a free subscription to Z Magazine for spoiling this interesting
>thread.
>
>Chuck0
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 11
>Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:29:14 +1000
>To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>From: Bill Bartlett <billbartlett at enterprize.net.au>
>Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Webmaster Sherman Austin Gets 1 Year in Jail
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>
>Why are you sending this story to all those lists? The story appears to have no source (the indymedia.org hotlink returns an error message and the apparent author merely gives a first name and initial.) and lacks any substantive facts, it doesn't even tell us what offense this Sherman Austin person is supposed to have been convicted of.
>
>So, while it might sound very dramatic, the story is utterly useless. It seems quite irresponsible to be disseminating such rubbish. It only gives free speech a bad name.
>
>Bill Bartlett
>Bracknell Tas
>
>At 11:01 PM -0400 4/8/03, Chuck0 wrote:
>
>
>
>>MESSAGE FROM CHANTEL G.
>>insurgent at email.com
>>
>>http://www.la.indymedia.org
>>08/04/2003
>>Federal Injustice System
>>
>>SHERMAN AUSTIN SENTENCED TO ONE YEAR IN FEDERAL PRISON
>>Sherman Austin, webmaster of RaisetheFist.com, was sentenced today, August 4, 2003, to one year in federal prison, with three years of probation. Judge Wilson shocked the courtroom when he went against the recommendation of not only the prosecution, but the FBI and the Justice Department, who had asked that Austin be sentenced to 4 months in prison, and 4 months in a half-way house, with 3 years of probation.
>>
>>Austin's probation stipulates, among other things, that (1) he cannot possess or access a computer of any kind without prior approval of his probation officer, (2) if his probation officer gives permission, the equipment is subject to monitoring and is subject to search and seizure at any time, without notice, (3) he cannot alter any of the software or hardware on any computer he uses, (4) he must surrender his phone, DSL, electric, and satellite bills, (5) he cannot associate with any person or group that seeks to change the government in any way (be that environmental, social justice, political, economic, etc.), and (6) he must pay over $2,000 in fines and restitution. Austin must surrender himself to the Federal Bureau of Prisons by September 3, 2003.
>>
>>For background information check out What the FBI Doesn't Want You to Know About RaisetheFist.com.
>>
>>More to come...
>>
>>
>>Help free ALL political prisoners, 'they're in there for us, lets work hard out here for them'
>>http://www.anarchistblackcross.org
>>
>>--------------------
>>It's said that anarchists live in a world of dreams to come & do not see the things that happen today We see them too well, & in their true colors, and that's what makes us carry the hatchet into the forests of prejudices that beset us. --P.Kropotkin
>>
>>
>>
>>>La-anarchists mailing list
>>>La-anarchists at lists.mutualaid.org
>>>http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/la-anarchists
>>>free hosting provided by http://www.mutualaid.org/
>>>
>>>
>>___________________________________
>>http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>_______________________________________________
>Lbo-talk mailing list
>Lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
>
>End of Lbo-talk Digest
>
>
>
>