Dwayne Monroe wrote:
>
>
>
> But the 'hell' being debated is not made from material
> impoverishment, but the alleged total manipulation of
> the US' cultural, informational and mental spaces by
> corporatations. The attempts at manipulation are
> beyond debate.
>
I don't have time right now to sort this out, but I think in this and related threads (individualism, sad story, etc) multiple positions are being squshed into just two positions, and that distorts the whole discussion.
Deliberate manipulation, intended or not, is not I think the central question at all, at least as far as I am concerned. Moreover, I would reject any interpretation of what I've said as claiming that americans are dupes or are deliberately ignorant or that anything at all in social relations or human activity is ever total, even as a rough interpretation of "total."
Finally, I believe "hell" is Brian's word, and this kind of diction is simply obscurantist. Also, someone introduced the word "Nazi" into the discussion, and that is simply stupid. From the viewpoint of the _rest_ of the world the u.s. is probably much worse, a much greater threat, than Hitler ever was. But I've also made a pest of myself for several years by jumping on anyone who called the u.s. government (or the Bush administration) "fascist" or "nazi." I'm more emphatic on this than Chip, even. I only use those words myself when I am referring to the 1920s and '30s.
More on another day.
Carrol