KERRY O'BRIEN: [...] And now, Labor's new leader, Mark Latham.
The man who has previously abused the American President like no other Australian politician, who said George W Bush was the most dangerous and incompetent president in living memory, presented a startling new image of himself today.
Having once called PM John Howard an arselicker and brown nose for being too close to America, Mr Latham today presented himself for a press conference in Labor's party room in Parliament House, flanked by the Australian and American flag.
Certainly the stars and stripes were in evidence in Parliament House when John Howard formally received President Bush in October.
But that's what prime ministers can do when they're welcoming foreign leaders.
What was the occasion for Mark Latham?
Well, facing a mounting attack from the Government for his previous scathing attacks on President Bush, Mr Latham had a meeting today with US Ambassador Tom Schieffer and then foreshadowed a softer, gentler relationship ahead.
The Ambassador departed and out came the stars and stripes.
No doubt some of his critics will now be asking whether Mark Latham himself has become a brown nose and those other things.
He joins me now from Canberra.
Mark Latham, whose idea was that American flag today, and what on earth were you using it for?
MARK LATHAM, OPPOSITION LEADER: Well, Kerry, we were meeting in the Labor Party Caucus room, where there's a great deal of heritage.
John Curtin looks down on the wall.
Curtin's greatest achievement in foreign policy terms was to say we look to America during World War II.
And I think it was appropriate to have a sign of that relationship and Australian and American flag there and I think if John Curtin was looking down from the wall he would think "Here is a new Labor leader with the continuity of Labor's relationship with the US clearly on display."
It's a room full of heritage.
We are proud of the way in which Curtin forged the relationship with the US.
I think that continuity over the 62 years since is very important.
We support the American alliance.
We can have differences.
It's not a rubber stamp.
We don't always agree, there have been differences from time to time.
But in the context of Labor heritage and the pride we have in the achievements over 62 years, I think that was appropriate.
KERRY O'BRIEN: I would still like to know whose idea it was.
Do you really think Australians would be impressed by the sight of Mark Latham, the man who aspires to lead this independent sovereign nation, using the American flag as a prop to try to neutralise the political problem you have created for yourself?
MARK LATHAM: That wasn't the intention.
As I say, we were in the Australian Labor Party Caucus room which is full of history and heritage.
We're a proud party.
The Labor Party has been in the Federal Parliament for 102 years.
For a good part of that period we have had very close relations with the US forged by John Curtin.
It's part of who we are.
It's part of our heritage.
We're proud of the past.
It doesn't mean we have always agree.
There have been celebrated differences between the Whitlam Labor government and the Nixon administration.
The Hawke government had differences with Reagan over his missile program.
The Crean opposition had differences in the lead-up to the conflict in Iraq.
KERRY O'BRIEN: I don't remember Bob Hawke ever having a press conference with the American flag behind him with no American.
Or Paul Keating or John Curtin.
MARK LATHAM: I'll think you'll find that Bob Hawke in particular is a great fan of John Curtin and when he looks down from the wall, and he founded this alliance, this relationship, I don't think it's inappropriate to pay tribute to that heritage.
We're not a party that logged on the scene yesterday, we have a long and proud history and on occasions like this we are not afraid to display it.
KERRY O'BRIEN: You presumably want Australians to feel that they can believe you and believe what you say.
How do you move from one moment calling the American President dangerous and incompetent and then suddenly standing there, as you did today, not quite wrapped in the stars and stripes but close enough?
MARK LATHAM: I think the reality is that we had a vigorous debate in the lead-up to the conflict in Iraq.
That was appropriate.
This is a serious debate where young Australian men and women were being sent off to conflict potentially to risk their lives, save their lives.
This is a serious debate.
In the context, people are passionate, they show some emotion and forceful words are not unusual.
But in a democracy, you can use some forceful language.
I spoke as a participant in a big parliamentary debate.
Just about every member of the House spoke in February.
I was one of those.
But now I have a different responsibility as the alternative PM and I put the American alliance and the relationship as the starting point with which I now deal with these particular issues.
But the other thing is, I mean, in the course of George Bush's election year in the US next year and my own in Australia, many more rugged things will be said about both of us.
And that is the nature of public life.
KERRY O'BRIEN: It wasn't just the dangerous incompetent line was it?
There was the one where you accused President Bush of stirring, quote, "puffed up patriotism" after the September 11 attacks.
And of waging a war against women and children in Iraq involving the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent people.
A war of which you said was more about correcting the mistakes of President Bush's father than a war on terrorism.
Do you think a quick moment of diplomacy with the ambassador will sweep all that away?
MARK LATHAM: The ambassador said we need to look to the future.
The truth of the war on terror is not fought in the past.
Going over parliamentary debates from 10 months ago is not going to do anything to make Australians safer and more secure for the future.
This is an opportunity to have a good working relationship with the ambassador.
We had an hour-long meeting today that was friendly and constructive.
That is the way in which I want to keep the relationship going.
We are not statues, where everything stands still in time.
Things do move on, and today was a clear sign of that.
KERRY O'BRIEN: You were asked today whether you still believe, as you've just recently restated, that America's strategy on the war on terrorism is fundamentally flawed.
You said in part, that you were just a senior member of Labor's front bench when you were saying things like that, not privy to the sort of information that would lead to a considered judgment in the national interest.
They were your words.
Does that mean your past comments were not considered judgments and not in the national interest?
MARK LATHAM: No.
I made those judgments in participating in the debate leading up to the war on Iraq.
The Labor Party opposed the war in Iraq and I was a contributor to that debate.
* * * *
KERRY O'BRIEN: Let me give you another one.
You said in that same interview with Maxine McKew, quote, "we are a nation that is willing to call a spade a spade and if need be to pick up the spade and whack someone over the head with it."
I wonder how many swinging voters would share that sentiment?
MARK LATHAM: Oh, Kerry, it's a metaphor for Australian straight talking --
KERRY O'BRIEN: Whack someone over the head?
Oh, come on.
You don't suggest that in a serious way.
Surely we can use our language so it is understood in the proper context.
KERRY O'BRIEN: You can't imagine some Australians, even Labor voters, saying that is macho posturing?
MARK LATHAM: You need to be understanding of the different way we use the language in this country.
We are not a prissy nation.
We are not an English upper class style.
We are the Australian people and part of it is --
KERRY O'BRIEN: Speaking of the English --
MARK LATHAM: Larrikinism and the like, you're a bit that way yourself, Kerry, I've seen you at the race track having a punt and all that.
There's nothing wrong in being an Australian.
KERRY O'BRIEN: I think we can draw a line between going to the races and some of these other things.
MARK LATHAM: I'm sure there are jockeys who have ridden horses for you badly that you'd maybe share my metaphor about how you feel at the time.
But you can express yourself without taking it literally.
KERRY O'BRIEN: There's private and there's public.
If you ever have to meet the Queen, talking about the English upper class, as Australian PM, I wonder if her background notes on you would include your reference to Tony Abbott and the Queen in June last year where you described Tony Abbott as, quote, "Basically hanging out of the backside of the British monarch whenever he can."
What is this obsession you have with bottoms?
MARK LATHAM: I've no particular obsession with bottoms, it's a figure of speech --
KERRY O'BRIEN: Howard the arse-licker and the brown nose kissing bums, as you put it, Abbott hanging out of the Queen's backside, the conga line of suckholes.
MARK LATHAM: Well I think 'bum' is a word that gets used a bit in this country.
It's not a swear word.
I'm sure you have used it yourself, so --
...you take together a full public life.
I have been in public office for 16 years.
I will go through your tapes and have a look at some of your commentary --
KERRY O'BRIEN: Feel free, but I'm not aspiring to lead this country.
MARK LATHAM: No, no, but you're leading a fine current affairs program.
KERRY O'BRIEN: I'm glad to eventually have you on it.
MARK LATHAM: I'm very pleased to be here and let's keep talking about the Australian language.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Someone who has known you very well says this has all been a calculated act on your part, what you apparently call controlled aggression ... although the taxi driver wasn't exactly controlled.
But the taxi driver aside, is that right, it's all a bit of calculated attention getting?
One thing that tends to happen in public life is that the media will put a simple label on someone.
MARK LATHAM: I used to be a maverick backbencher and then I got the bovver boy tag.
You move through responsibilities.
I'm like anybody else, I'm complex, multidimensional.
I don't live my life in a simplistic way.
Sometimes I drop a clanger, sometimes I make a mistake other times I get it right.
I'm not different to anyone else in that regard.
If you want me to be some predictable, orthodox, white bread politician, that is not Mark Latham.
KERRY O'BRIEN: I think the media, at least, will appreciate you the way you are Mark Latham.
MARK LATHAM: You're having fun, Kerry, that's the thing, you're having the fun.
KERRY O'BRIEN: You've certainly given me plenty of material to work with.
MARK LATHAM: I've given you a couple of days to work it through.
Hopefully, next time, we can talk about policy when you're getting some of those down the pipeline, but for now thanks very much for talking with us.
MARK LATHAM: It is a pleasure, thank you, Kerry.
[This is the print version of story http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2003/s1003762.htm]