>User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
>Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:17:08 -0500
>Subject: [IP] more on the NYC peace march -- an observation(s)
>From: Dave Farber <dave at farber.net>
>
>------ Forwarded Message
>From: "Thomas C. Williams" <twilliams at worldcontact.com>
>Organization: World Contact, LLC
>Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:07:52 -0500
>To: dave at farber.net
>
>
>Dave:
>My wife and I were in the city for the weekend with out of town guests and
>knew nothing about this demonstration in advance... Saturday afternoon in
>Times
>Square we witnessed huge numbers of demonstrators arriving from the main
>protest near the UN.... they proceeded to attack and destroy the Starbucks
>Coffee store across the street, tearing down the large main illuminated
>sign, and aggressively attacking the foot police who are normally on duty
>in Times
>Square. We witnessed through the restaurant windows police being attacked by
>protesters, tourists being hassled and sincerely frightened, and families
>coming in to the restaurant for safety. It was not pleasant. Extra police
>arrived within minutes, ambulances soon after, and within 30 minutes order
>was completely re-established. There was NO sympathy for the protesters in the
>restaurant among the crying children and shocked tourists. People on the
>street were thanking the police, and asking where to walk to avoid additional
>protesters. Conclude what you will, I am simply reporting the facts from
>there.
>
>As a side note, the Metro North conductor on our ride home today had nothing
>polite to say about the behavior of these folks over the weekend...
>apparently there was a substantial disregard for safety rules on the
>trains, and an unwillingness to pay for fares. He was not happy about any
>of it.
Dieser TELEPOLIS Artikel wurde Ihnen von <ronda at panix.com> gesandt.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Massive Anti-War Protest in New York City Demonstrates
Ronda Hauben 16.02.2003
U.S. Government's Hostility to Democracy At Home and Abroad
There were marches in cities around the world on Saturday, February 15, 2003. Not, however, in New York City. Protesters were not only denied the right to march, but massive numbers of people were also denied the right to be part of the rally. Police on horseback charged protesters and beat up demonstrators, preventing them from joining officially approved rally on First Avenue. Yet estimates are that 1 million people were in New York City on Saturday to protest the U.S. government making war against Iraq.
"New York City politicians didn't want us here," commented one protester. "They tried every single roadblock. We didn't let them win. We are here."
Another protester explained, "Just think, people all over the world are doing it. It's the only way to survive. Everybody came for the same reason, No War."
Responding to the fabrication of a terrorist alert called "code orange" used by city and federal government officials to deny protesters the right to march on Saturday, a student from Cornell University said:
"The city did a lousy job. They give a permit to rally but then they don't let people get there. The fact they didn't give the permit to march is outrageous. The whole code orange is crap."
<snip>
------ Forwarded Message From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry at piermont.com> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:29:56 -0500 To: Dave Farber <dave at farber.net> Cc: perry at piermont.com Subject: Re: Was this what you saw?
[You can post this if you like.]
Well, I'll answer your question by saying what I *did* see.
I arrived at Lexington Avenue and 51st Street by subway with a group of friends near noon. We were physically prevented by police barricades from getting East of 3rd Avenue. 3rd Avenue was filled -- FILLED -- with people as far as the eye could see, and cell phone conversations I had with other friends I was supposed to meet indicated that the street was in similar condition several blocks to the south and at least as far north as 60th or so. Traffic could not pass -- the streets were totally full. There were protesters of every age and description -- everything from 80 year old women to teenagers. It was one of the most diverse groups of protesters I've ever witnessed.
However, the police were not going to let any of us near the rally itself. Phalanxes of police in full riot gear prevented us from getting anywhere east of 3rd Avenue, let alone 49th and 1st. The police pretty strongly forced the crowd to move north, and my phone conversations with my friend Dave indicated that they were forceably dispersing the crowd to the north at 62nd or so -- the goal of moving us north was to get us as far away from the demonstration as possible and disperse us. Many people forcefully resisted this -- I was part of a group that stood our ground at 3rd Avenue and 57th street for at least half an hour or so, completely refusing to move out of the intersection and completely filling it (and you can imagine how many people are required to do that -- its six lanes in each direction). People tried very hard to get to the main rally, but ultimately the massive police presence, including mounted police, prevented that from happening.
My companions and I tried very, very hard to get to the demonstration, but the police made it clear we would not be allowed to, and refused to even give information about whether there was any open route that lead to 1st Avenue.
The claim from the police is that there were perhaps 100,000 demonstrators. However, the blocks I was on -- from 51st to about 61st -- were completely packed with people trying to get east -- so packed that it was nearly uncomfortable. My back of the envelope calculation says that this alone represents at least 70,000 people, being pretty conservative about it, and perhaps twice that number -- and that was just what I personally witnessed. There is no way that the total claimed number holds up to even to a reasonable test -- and I have no idea how many were thwarted from getting even as far east as we were, because when we later left, we discovered barricades had been erected at Lexington Avenue to prevent people from getting to 3rd. I also have no way of knowing how many were similarly trapped and trying to get east from 2nd Avenue.
My guess, and it is only a guess, is that far, far more people were prevented from demonstrating than actually made it to the demonstration. I have a substantial number friends who I've communicated with, by cellphone during the period and afterwards, who also went, none of whom actually made it to 1st Avenue -- all reported being prevented, somewhere substantially to the west of the designated area.
Myself, I left somewhere around 2:30, having tried in vain for 2.5 hours to get to the actual demonstration. I later turned on the radio and heard that the rally itself continued for hours afterwards, but I don't anyone who managed to get to it.
As for violence, I witnessed police in riot gear everywhere, but I did not personally witness any arrests or violence by the police. The protesters were themselves extremely peaceable -- I suspect any outbreaks of conflict would have been isolated, but I obviously was not everywhere, and neither were my friends.
The police seemed very intent on separating groups, forcing them to move north, and dispersing them, but did not seem interested in using tactics beyond intimidation in carrying this out.
Anyway, I was very, very disappointed by the fact that the ability of the public to show its displeasure was so obviously being thwarted by deliberate action on the part of the authorities.
Perry