What are "standard recruiting methods" and what are "non-standard" (?) ones?
At 6:05 PM -0500 1/2/03, Chuck0 wrote:
>>Also, we have to consider the facts that (A) the African American
>>population in the USA is still much more decidedly working-class
>>than the white population (as blacks are underrepresented among
>>power elites, higher-level managers, self-employed professionals
>>with higher incomes and prestige, etc.) and that (B) the proportion
>>of African Americans who are in favor of left-wing views on
>>economy, civil rights and liberties, etc. within the total African
>>American population is far larger than the proportion of whites who
>>are in favor of the same within the total white population. Given
>>these facts, there should be a much higher proportion of African
>>Americans than 12% in any decent left-wing movement.
>
>At the same time, when you talk about contemporary
>African-Americans, you also need to talk about class. This is
>especially evident in Washington, DC, with its large black middle
>class. It's a different discussion when we talk about a city where
>African-Americans have more power than usual (in city government and
>as government workers).
I've already mentioned increasing class polarization in "black communities," to the extent that it becomes difficult to use the term "black communities" except as a shorthand term. There are now strata of African Americans whose interests, desires, and aspirations are well represented by the Democrats and the Republicans. How large are such strata? It's important to do empirical research on this subject.
At 6:05 PM -0500 1/2/03, Chuck0 wrote:
>And we're totally leaving out the other non-white groups in American
>society and their relationship to left and anarchist political
>movements.
The history of radicalization of people of color indicates that Latinos, Asians, and other people of color have tended to follow black leads, either directly joining them or more often modelling their organizing on blacks'. I don't know if that will be the case in the future, especially as Latinos demographically increased their absolute number and relative weight in the USA, but Latinos (divided by color, national origins, etc.) are much less cohesive than blacks, and so are Asians, Native Americans, etc.
At 6:05 PM -0500 1/2/03, Chuck0 wrote:
>Anarchism is fundamentally opposed to the state.
What does "fundamental opposition to the state" mean _in practice_, though? It's not that anarchists don't pay taxes, live "off the grid," do not use any institutions and social programs funded by tax dollars, etc.
At 6:05 PM -0500 1/2/03, Chuck0 wrote:
>It [anarchism] advocates direct action and non-compliance with authority.
That's a matter of tactics, though, and as tactics, direct action and non-compliance with authority can and have been used by many groups, including groups on the Right (e.g, Operation Rescue). In my opinion, tactics don't define political identities.
At 6:05 PM -0500 1/2/03, Chuck0 wrote:
>>You are basically saying that people of color in left organizations
>>are dupes and victims of white cultists, dumb enough to be easily
>>brainwashed by white evangelists. It seems you can view leftists
>>of color only as objects of white leftists.
>
>Sure, that how it happens sometimes. I'm sure that there are plenty
>of people of color who have thought things through and want to
>belong to these groups, but when you are talking about groups with
>cult-like qualities, they will draw in the gullible and confused, no
>matter what color they are.
It seems that in your opinion all socialist organizations -- including Solidarity -- are "cults" by definition. You can disagree with others of different political dispositions without developing the sort of disdain that you've consistently shown them. You aren't interested in what socialists of color actually think about what we do, though -- at least not interested enough to inquire about that.
At 6:05 PM -0500 1/2/03, Chuck0 wrote:
>>You are also completely ignoring the long and diverse tradition of
>>socialist thought and organizing developed by Marxists of color
>>here and elsewhere: W.B.E. DuBois, Paul Robeson, C.L.R. James, Jose
>>Carlos Mariategui, Eric Williams, Amilcar Cabral, Manning Marable,
>>etc.
>
>I wasn't talking about them. Were any of these members of the ISO or
>RCP or WWP? They were socialists and communists, sure, but were they
>members of socialist cults?
DuBois became a member of the Communist Party; Robeson was associated with it. James joined the Socialist Workers Party, and then he created what was called the Johnson-Forest Tendency with Raya Dunayevskaya, etc. Mariategui founded the Peruvian Communist Party. Williams formed the People's National Movement. Cabral was the architect for the African Party for the Independence of Cape Verde and Guinea (PAIGC). Marable, together with Angela Davis, Elizabeth Martinez, etc., initiated the Committee of Correspondence; he's in the DSA now, I think. With the exception of the Johnson-Forest Tendency, the CoC, and the DSA, the above were mass political parties, not tiny orgs.
At 6:05 PM -0500 1/2/03, Chuck0 wrote:
>>What makes riots better than "an orgy of permitted rallies, Green
>>Party meetings, socialist forums, and monthly dues-paying to
>>unions..." in your opinion? Riots _without_ conscious political
>>self-organizing of the exploited, oppressed, and marginalized, _at
>>best_, only play into the hands of social democrats (at worst
>>nothing happens in response to riots except further police
>>repression).
>
>Because riots get results. One of my anarchist friends is the
>talkative sort and she talks to politicans. Over and over again they
>tell her that the only way that radical social change will happen is
>if the people get out of control.
Riots _can_ get "results" from social democrats (Cf. Frances Fox Piven and Richard A. Cloward, _Poor People's Movements: Why They Succeed, How They Fail_), but _that's as far as they go even in the best cases_. The LA riots didn't even achieve that much. Besides, revolutionary anarchists (who claim to be "fundamentally opposed to the state") and socialists are interested in more than moving the politicians slightly to the left in fearful response to riots, aren't we? -- Yoshie
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