> I'm not in the mood to get into another endless black bloc debate with you
> here (and actually you weren't even addressing me, but again, were
> speaking to your "audience").
I don't want to get into a long debate either, but I'll respond to this post.
But the black bloc'ing tactic isn't 1)
> particular to anarchism, seeing as that it wasn't even invented by anarchists but by
> the left-commie autonomen and antifa groups in europe (i.e. the
> contention at your black blocs for dummies page that a "black bloc is a
> collection of anarchists and anarchist affinity groups
> that organize together for a particular protest action" is wrong
I know the history of the black bloc, but there is nothing wrong on the "Black Bloc for Dummies" page. As they are *currently* used, black blocs are mainly done by anarchists. The history is irrelevant if you are describing contemporary black blocs.
- Black
> blocs may or may not be anarchist; the first black blocs certainly were
> not, and not all since the 1980s have been.
The history and origin of black blocs is not under dispute.
2) has zero use outside the
> protest arena
No kidding! The black bloc is a street tactic! When did anybody ever claim that it had uses outside of protests? If you want to talk about overall strategy that goes beyond protests, then black blocs have played an important role.
>and the achievements of it within that
> one area are so far dubious at best (the seattle wto was shut down, in part due
> to black bloc'ers, but since then black blocs haven't accomplished
> anything substantial)
Brian, you really have your hand in the sand here and it really shows. You might want to retract this statement, since everybody knows about the black blocs. The black blocs have accomplished a wide range of things, which I won't go into detail here. The significance and effectiveness of the black blocs can be measured by the police reaction to them and the amount of marginalization that the liberals engage in.
and 3) as the Workers Solidarity Movement
> of Ireland (an anarchist group) said in an issue of Onward: "What is the
> possible gain from a tiny group of people adopting tactics that, by their
> nature, exclude the vast majority of people?
This is an irrelevant question, because it is not being asked equally of other protest groups. For example, why isn't this question being asked about Ya Basta or the Pagan Cluster or the people doing lockdowns or the folks who do civil disobedience that ends up in arrests? The black bloc has never aimed to exclude people and in fact, has openly invited people to participate via public calls.
> It's not going to stop any decisions
> being made by the G8, because those decisions will be made anyway,"
Who ever said that a black bloc in itself would stop the G8? It's really shallow to insinuate that any group thinks this way, because it is clear that we have to engage in long campaigns to undermine the legitimacy and power of the G8.
> whether or not any individual G8 meeting is shut down. "No one believes
> that stopping the WTO or G8 from having these meetings will actually stop them from
> operating. Nothing happens at these meetings that couldn't be
> organized in some other way." Workers Solidarity Movement, "What's the
> Future for the Globalization Movement?" in Onward, at
> http://www.onwardnewspaper.org/news/0102/glob.html
>
> So - black blocs weren't invented by anarchists, there's nothing about
> them that definitely binds them to anarchist principles (black blocs such
> as the RACB included Maoists and others), and so far they don't seem to
> work well. But boy they make people look harder core than thou, I'll give them that.
> It's also tiresome to be called a "liberal"/"Stalinist"/"Leninist" over
> and over simply for disagreeing with you.
Well, nobody ever claimed that black blocs were invented by anarchists. Yes, black bloc tactics can be used by anybody. So what? Who else is standing up for the right to dissent in the streets? The Maoists and socialists go get permits to protest and do free speech. The anarchists have put their butts on the line to fight for what are basically liberal ideas.
And black blocs have been very effective. Black blocs aren't the only tactic that anarchists should be using, but they have proven to be fun and empowering. They have gotten out ideas out into public view. They have put the authorities and capitalists on notice.
Should I show you some pictures?
Chuck0
------------------------------------------------------------ Personal homepage -> http://chuck.mahost.org/ Infoshop.org -> http://www.infoshop.org/ MutualAid.org -> http://www.mutualaid.org/ Alternative Press Review -> http://www.altpr.org/ Practical Anarchy Online -> http://www.practicalanarchy.org/ Anarchy: AJODA -> http://www.anarchymag.org/
"The state can't give you free speech, and the state can't take it away. You're born with it, like your eyes, like your ears. Freedom is something you assume, then you wait for someone to try to take it away. The degree to which you resist is the degree to which you are free..." ---Utah Phillips