Ya, N/A, I've been through this, Bill feels quite strongly that it is worse than murder for any society, no matter how classless or egalitarian, to imposer any requirements that its members are expected to contribute to the welfare of others by labor. This is slavery, he says, no matter whether the requirements are democratically imposed or not and regardless of the possible consequences of not having such requirements (e.g., widespread paratism), Bill becomes extremely abusive on this issue -- he tends to get on his high horse easily anyway, but he'll call you a stupid slavedriver and insult you mercilessly. He seems to think this will get others, at least, to see things his way. I don't think it's worth attempting debate him on the point (or indeed much of anything else). jks
billbartlett at dodo.com.au wrote:
At 6:38 AM +0000 5/1/03, n/ a wrote:
>Sure, their power is derived from the ability to force people to
>work for them, nothing I've said denies that, what I was pointing
>out is that you're claim that the link between the need to work and
>economic scurity can be abolished is false, because our economic
>security, individually, and far mroe importantly collectively, is
>derived from our ability to work.
Yes, silly me, I was forgetting that. Lucky for everyone you weren't fooled by me talking about people being forced to work. You knew that meant ability and need to work. Either that or you can't even conceive of any other outcome of people being freed from the compulsion to work except that of everyone doing no work.
.. . .
> >But, even conceptually, a society in which everyone is a slave is
> >impossible. A slave requires a master. Who would be the masters in
> >your society and if you imagine there would be no masters, then who
> >in God's name is going to "force the ruling class to work"?
>
>No one is advocating a society in which "everyone is a slave". I
>don't get where this idea of yours comes from. Unless, of course,
>you think nature is enslaving us all! What you don't seem to get is
>that already the ruiling class have no fear for their ecnoomic
>security. That the whole point of this class war.
. . . .
You'd replace wages with rationing I suppose? Anyhow, given that you clearly haven't understood a word I've said, I better stop spouting more ideas you can't digest.
Bill Bartlett Bracknell Tas
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