[lbo-talk] Re: offshoring vs technical visas

kjkhoo at softhome.net kjkhoo at softhome.net
Thu Jul 3 19:20:24 PDT 2003


1. Guess it's best to get all the categories clear. I thought I was commenting on a post that said specifically E&E engineers. Now here's "programmers" which also includes software engineers, etc.

2. Matloff -- I guess reading Sec 6 of the summary says it all for me (the condescension is palpable; but on a factual point: why compare the incomes of all H1-Bs to the median of computer software applications engineers, of whom there were 380k in 2000, as surely Matloff does not mean that all H1-B's (a number larger than 380k) are employed as software applications engineers -- in the passage cited, it's earlier said "programmers"). But the whole thing -- hey, is the US a closed system? Given the nature of the work, I guess no H1-B's, or a more restrictive H1-B will probably mean outsourcing and/or re-location -- and even lower salaries for those doing the same job, but now in a non-US location. Incidentally, 1/3 of all PhD's in science and engineering in US R&D are foreign-born -- many out here would be quite happy to see them come home.

3. Is the whole arrangement exploitative? On a systemic basis, yes. For the non-US individuals involved, less so than if they were employed in their home locations where the salaries they receive would be even lower.

4. So what is it that you want?

a. don't hire foreigners in the US and maintain the American wage premium

b. hire only foreigners who are 'geniuses' (a la Matloff) and pay them a premium over Americans

c. hire foreigners in their home locations, at an even greater discount than under H1-B

d. hire foreigners in the US at the same wage and conditions as Americans -- and how would you do that without reducing wages in the US (supply and demand)

e. allow for a globalised labour mobility without unnecessary restrictions such as no change of employer, etc. -- i.e. liberalise the H1-B programme

By-the-by, isn't it the case that the major differentiation that has occurred in the US over the 1980s and 1990s is the massive opening up of the wage premium between college graduates and the rest? Compared to which, the estimated 10-33% differential between Americans and foreigners with H1-B's would appear to be relatively minor?

kj khoo

Tom Roche wrote:
>http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/H1BSummary.pdf
>> By official data, currently more than 100,000 U.S. programmers are
>> unemployed. Many more are underemployed, technically employed
>> working in nonprofessional jobs such as bus driver, real estate
>> appraiser, and so on. The un- and underemployed easily total a half
>> million workers. Meanwhile 463,000 H-1Bs are employed in the field.
>
>> The National Research Council report, commissioned by Congress,
>
>Building A Workforce For The Information Economy,
>http://www.nap.edu/catalog/9830.html
>
>> pointed out that H-1Bs have an adverse impact on overall wage
>> levels.
[rest deleted for brevity]



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