``...Brad, like most liberals of that sort, misses the fundamental point -- not a socialist point, but an Enlightment liberal point -- which is that we have No Fucking Business telling other people how to run their affairs..''. jks
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This exchange reminds me of something interesting (at least to me). For the record, air power and logistics support was precisely how the US entered Vietnam under Kennedy. By the summer of 1963 two points were obvious before Diem was assassinated with the pro-active support of Kennedy and Lodge. First, the US didn't have a clue what it was doing in Vietnam and second Vietnam didn't want to be saved by the US.
In September of 1963 a formal policy reassessment of Vietnam was underway. Kennedy had sent a mission to Saigon to make a report to the NSC. This gives you a flavor of what was presented:
``...the reports they gave at the next National Security Council meeting could not have been more different. For Krulak [McNamara's man, special assistant to JCS on counter insurgency] the important thing, the shooting war, was fine, it was going according to schedule, particularly out there in the countryside [a lie*]. If there was any dissent about the regime, it was aimed at the Nhus, not at Diem. Diem was good. Our man. Respectable. All we had to do was stay with the program. Since Mendenhall [Harriman's man, State Dept foreign service officer] was not allowed to challenge the military reporting, he described the collapse of the civilian morale, the atmosphere of fear and hatred in every city, and he said that yes, the government had finally succeeded in unifying the population---though against itself. The war in the countryside, he said, was now secondary to the opposition to the regime.
When Mendenhall had finished, the President looked at both and said, `You two did visit the same country, didn't you?'...'' (The Best and the Brightest, David Halberstam, 277p)
*This lie derives from a history of doctored military field reports that general Harkin, in charge of US Army operations in Vietnam had arranged through various bureaucratic techniques---in order to represent a picture of political progress and military victory.
Eight months before the above NSC meeting with Kennedy, Harkin had become involved in active suppression of increasingly pessimistic field assessments in the Mekong Delta. By April one of Harkin's field officers Paul Vann had made a systematic study of the joint ARVN and US (logistics and air) supported battles with the Viet Cong and came to the conclusion that they were losing control of the countryside. Vann made an end run around Harkin, and had prepared a presentation for the JCS. The morning Vann's presentation was scheduled before the JCS, Harkin pulled some strings in the Pentagon and had Vann's presentation taken off the Joint Chief's agenda. It was never presented.
Now there are no parallels between Vietnam and Iraq, except two. First the US doesn't have clue what it is doing in Iraq, and second Iraq doesn't want to be saved by the US.
Chuck Grimes