> But if the group decides, then are vetos involved in that? Or do they decide
> by a method other than consensus?
If the group decided that a block in invalid or scurrilous, they continue with the agenda.
> And why, exactly is "I just don't like this proposal" invalid? What if
> someone has reasons of their own for not telling the group why they object
> to a measure? Isn't that their prerogative? Shouldn't you trust that if
> someone in your group doesn't like a proposal, there is some sort of reason
> involved? Why would they have to spill the beans on their private affairs?
> Why demand the truth from them? In my view, a meeting should be a place
> where decisions rather than confessionals are made.
Look, yu *have* to state the reasons for your block, otherwise it is just invalid. Consensus is also about openness and transparency. People need to explain openly why they oppose something.
In any case, whatever the reason for the block, it does give the group an opportunity to pause an reconsider the issues involved in the proposal.
> My own experience of consensus decision making is that it falls apart on
> trivial matters like setting times for meetings (where I think the solution
> is to appoint a dictator randomly) and in really serious matters which
> polarize the group (where various forms of majority and preference counting
> should be considered.) Insisting on it as a form of political education
> isn't a good idea in my view, since it is an artificial device constructed
> for a particular sort of decision - the ones where everyone has more or less
> the same stake.
Well, you don't use consensus for every little thing, like setting the dates and times for meetings, unless it is a big issue that impacts on many people outside of the group. Consensus should be used to decide the date for a mass protest, for example, not for the next business meeting of the group.
I don't understand your point about the process being "artificial." This process has been used by thousands of groups for a very long time.
Chuck0