[lbo-talk] *Materialism and Empirio-Criticism*

Shane Mage shmage at pipeline.com
Tue Sep 2 08:42:07 PDT 2003



>The sad news is that it is real hard to escape the
>conclusion that quantum theory itself -- not a theory
>about quantum mechanics -- says that the states of
>particles are observer dependent in a very deep way.
>For a popular, nonmathematical account accessible to
>any college educated person, see Nick Davies, Quantum
>Reality. There has been much ingenuity escaping this
>conclusion. None of the alternatives has gained
>general acceptance.

Heisenberg proposed that observation of a particle could never be completely accurate as to both position and velocity. The Copenhagen interpretation proposed that this uncertainty is a feature of the particles themselves--that they are basically probability functions. Neither challenges Realism, since for a Realist mathematical laws, like probability, are just as real as physical objects (or even more real than they are). As for "the states of particles [being] observer dependent in a very deep way," whatever "a very deep way" may mean, the fact remains that virtually none of the virtually infinite quantity of particles in the past, present, and future universe[s] can be in an "observer-dependent" state in any, let alone an "important" or "deep" sense, since they are in no sense whatever capable of observation through any conceivable experimental apparatus.


> > > The hard case for realism even on the NOA is
>> quantum
> > > mechanics. There the science itself sure as hell seems
> > > to tell that what there is, is in an important way
> > > observer-dependent.

Shane Mage

"When we read on a printed page the doctrine of Pythagoras that all things are made of numbers, it seems mystical, mystifying, even downright silly.

When we read on a computer screen the doctrine of Pythagoras that all things are made of numbers, it seems self-evidently true." (N. Weiner)



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