BBC Monitoring Russian energy boss calls for Russia to become "liberal empire" Source: Channel One TV, Moscow, in Russian 1400 gmt 28 Sep 03
Unified Energy System of Russia boss Anatoliy Chubays believes that Russia must become a "liberal empire". On the "Vremena" programme hosted by Vladimir Pozner, Chubays expressed the opinion that Russia should take on the mission of leading the CIS. He explained that this leadership would involve economic expansion abroad and support for Russians and Russian culture abroad. Chubays predicted that in 50 years' time Russia would be one of four great democracies in the northern hemisphere.
Pozner began by reminding the audience that Chubays had delivered a speech entitled "Russia's mission in the 21st century" at St Petersburg Engineering and Economics University on 25 September, in which Chubays said Russia had adopted a liberal ideology. Pozner put it to Chubays that quite a substantial part of the Russian people, nearly 50 per cent, would like to revise the results of the privatizations of the 1990s. "Of course such feelings exist," Chubays said, "this is true, but it is also true that this is all the Russian authorities' fault and nobody else's". The subject of the results of privatization disappeared about 18 months ago, said Chubays. "It was not done to speak about this, because this is nonsense. It is a great pity that because of a mistake on the part of the authorities, - I am talking about the part of the Yukos story that concerns a revision of the results of privatization, - the subject has re-emerged yet again in the public consciousness," Chubays went on. He added that he had thoroughly studied all the major political parties' manifestos and found out that "not a single one is demanding the abolition of private property, or re-instatement of central price fixing, or cancellation of elections, or abolition of the division of powers". "The basic values of our life, albeit fragile, immature and unformed, are liberal principles. This is the same right-wing ideology which has pulled the country out of the greatest dangers in the last 12 years and is accepted today despite the continuing discussion," Chubays said.
Asked by Pozner if he saw any link between the attack on Yukos and the Duma elections, Chubays said: "No, I would not speak about a direct link. Instead, I think that there are forces at a very high level of power which are definitely interested in the results of privatization being revised. This is the case, and these are not just politicians but also some business structures which are rubbing their hands with glee thinking that this is where they could get something they were not able to get before. The Yukos story just means that this group of politicians and businessmen were able to push through their decision at some stage. That is what happened."
On the subject of capital flight from Russia, Chubays said: "At the beginning of this year, for the first time in the last 15 years, the influx of capital to Russia was greater than the flight. We had a positive balance for the first time for many, many years. As soon as we got a positive balance, typically for Russia, we destroyed it with our own hands. It is quite clear that this was caused by the actions we are discussing [the Yukos story]."
Chubays would like Russia to have a mission in the world. He said: "Russia is the clear leader within the CIS in living standards. We have the highest wages and pensions, not to mention the fact that Russia's economy is 20 to 30 times bigger that its neighbours' economies. If this is so, I believe we must be frank and straightforward and assume this mission of leadership, not just as a slogan but as a Russian state policy. I believe this mission of leadership means that Russia is obliged to support in every way the expansion of its business outside Russia."
Chubays did not hide that he wants Russia to be a liberal empire: "Look around. What is the United States of America? This is not just a liberal empire, it sometimes violates international law, as I understand it, as happened in Yugoslavia and Iraq. Incidentally, I might not have put forward such a radical goal, such a radical thesis if the real world were different, if our former enemy number one, the USA, behaved differently. If this is the case, if the world is like this, if this is what the world has become in the 21st century, we cannot afford to stay passive. We must assign ourselves tasks which are relevant for Russia in the world and circumstances it finds itself in."
In response to Pozner's remark that no US leader would ever say the USA is an empire, Chubays said: "No, he won't say it. But he will do it. He's already done it - completely over the top. In my understanding, if we want to exist in these conditions, a lot must be spelt out. It's a different matter that I don't believe that a liberal empire means violating the territorial integrity of our neighbours, or internationally accepted laws. But of course it means and must mean not only support for business, it must mean direct support for Russians and Russian culture abroad."
Asked about his recent business successes in former republics of the Soviet Union, Chubays said: "I don't like slogans without actions. This is probably why I started speaking about this, because we already have undisputed successes, which have not been achieved in a mild and friendly discussion, mind you, but in tough, head-on competition with the USA, as happened in Georgia. We've achieved the result: the Georgian economy is in our company's hands. We will restore it as we are restoring the Russian energy sector. Next, we will take Armenia's energy sector, next, we are holding talks with Ukraine and Kazakhstan and I am confident we will move further."
Asked about his vision of the world in 50 years, Chubays said he saw four great democracies in the northern hemisphere: the USA, Europe, Japan and Russia. "With this in view, many major contentious problems in Russia's foreign policy can be resolved. Do we need to become part of the European Union? Do we need to become part of NATO? No, we don't, we don't, we will not fit there, neither geographically nor politically nor economically. We have a different mission."
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