<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV><EM>>We're not talking about internationalism. </EM> <DIV></DIV> <P>Yes we are, we're talking about internationalism because we're talking about people who self-identify with differing opressed "nationalities" [the concept of which I disagree with, but they exist merely by their abstract construction by people].and how they relate to one another. The question is immediately one of internationalism in outlook.</P> <P><EM>>From a Marxist perspective, I'd rather see people relate to each >other that way too. However, an internationalist perspective isn't >something that pops up spontaneously, from what I've read and >experienced; it has to be learned. </EM></P> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <P>Vary few marxists in practice are internationalist. Certainly not the trotskyists, who are far from it... the ethno-centrism of their rejection of "socialism in one country" is party to a very counter-internationalist outlook.</P> <P>I've never said an internationalist perspective is something that merely "pops up spontaneously", although this can happen in accordance with the circumstances. Primarily, anarchists believe in education around this issue and others. We use compulsion in our education, however, only with the ruling class whose compulsion we are at issue with... not with other members of the opressed class.</P> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV><EM>>Sorry, I don't see your point here. What do "socially-starved </EM> <DIV></DIV><EM>>people" (whatever that means) joining a group have to do with people </EM> <DIV></DIV><EM>>of colour talking to a member of an org who looks like them? </EM> <DIV></DIV><EM>>Wanting to "fit in" is pretty natural, although conditioned by </EM> <DIV></DIV><EM>>society, history, psychology, etc. But your observation seems to </EM> <DIV></DIV><EM>>imply that people who want to join a group JUST want to fit in, to </EM> <DIV></DIV><EM>>anything. They don't care what the group is, they just "want in". </EM> <DIV></DIV><EM>>A bit simplistic that seems to me. </EM> <DIV></DIV><EM> </EM> <DIV></DIV> <P>To put it straight up, its condescending and elitist, not to mention enthocentric [and typically trotskyist] to specifically get someone of the same skin pigmentation to talk to another person about a said group. It's a fundamental denial of the internationalism that people of different ethnic backgrounds from the opressed class have the same fundamental interests in common. Your extrapolation of my comment that people "just" join groups to "fit in" is indeed simplistic, and not what I was implying - this can be an underlying motive, or a secondary motive, but not the whole picture of the psychology of the situation.</P></div><br clear=all><hr>Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMREN/2016">get 2 months FREE*</a> </html>