<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><EM>If you suggest that I have ever argued or or defended torture in any context whatsoever, you are a lying sack of excrement, and a slanderer, and that statement is actionable. So yes, I am telling you what to say, or what not to say: shut your damn trap, don't you dare accuse me of being an apologist for torture under any circumstances whatdoever. I also note that Carrol has here disavowed the idea that it is ever acceptable to torture anyone for any reason. You owe him an apology. Me too, but I wouldn't accept it, so don't bother offering one. jks </EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>I never said you were an apologist for torture, but you certainly are an apologist for Carrol, who, despite what he's said here, publicly endorsed Milosevic as an Serbian "patriot," which, to me, is being rather soft on torture, mass murder, ethnic violence, etc. And I bring this up to point out (a) nothing Carrol says about human rights should be taken seriously, and (b) that some on this list have no problem with Carrol's action, indeed support it, or they simply don't care that a list member -- one who engages in his own share of bombast -- signed on to such a barbaric thing. If I signed a petition that called Pinochet a Chilean patriot, or Kissinger an American patriot, then spouted off about how horrible torture is when performed by those I don't like, I would hope that list members would rub my nose in the contradiction. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So no, Justin, I don't and never have considered you a fan of torture. Thus no apology is necessary, and anyway, you don't want one. So I'll consider the matter explained and will move on. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DP</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>