<HTML> From: Miles Jackson <cqmv@pdx.edu> > > CB: Yes, but,  but for the scientific refutations, how would we know that > > race is an invalid biological concept ? > There are many bases for the certainty of claims; science is only one of those bases, even in an industrialized society like the U.S. There is absolutely no scientific evidence that supports the claim that angels exist, but about 75% of adults in our society are certain they exist!  Tradition, family, mass media, peer pressure all play significant roles in the social production of certainties like (for many Americans) race, homosexuality, and angels (to cite a strange trilogy). All I'm saying is this: there are many ways to skin the ideological cat.  Science is one possible tool.  But as the example of angels demonstrates, people can believe anything with certainty, as long as the idea is represented as an obvious certainty in a network of ongoing social relations. --And so with racial categories or the lack thereof. Miles</BLOCKQUOTE> ^^^^^^^^ CB: Actually , I am not disagreeing with you that scientific arguments are not _sufficient_ to dissuade many people from racist thinking.  I am disagreeing with you that scientific arguments are not _necessary_ for winning the overall battle.  As it turns out I use "necessary" and "sufficient"  in the strict logical sense here.  Scientific refutations are necessary but not enough in themselves. More specifically , I am thinking that a core group of anti-racists in the overall struggle against racism are Marxists and other leftists who do accept science as a privileged method for truth and certainty finding and belief formation. In other words, I am not saying that biological arguments are the only way to skin the ideological cat on racism. However , they are a critical way for those with a materalist world outlook, and those with a materialist or scientific world outlook are an important minority sector of the potential anti-racist majority. Those with a materialist world outlook are not confined to making only biological arguments, but can use several methods in combination in efforts to persuade others.  Of course, the groups who are victims of racism don't need to be persuaded much. So, they constitute another core group. </HTML>