<HTML><BODY BGCOLOR="#3dffff">Miles: I think it's important to contextualize this.  In a society that values science as we do, the only acceptable answer is a scientific one, I agree.  But do you really believe that people can only have what they consider biological knowledge if they do science?  A great deal of cross-cultural and historical data challenges this. Biological knowledge is common in many societies without scientific activity.  If people were taught by tradition and cultural practices that skin color does not reflect important categories, that would be valid knowledge in their society, as assessed by the truth standards in that society. CB:  I get the feeling you are reflecting Levi-Strauss' _ Les Pensee Sauvage_, the logic of the concrete, impressive botanical knowledge among the ____people, etc. I don't know. I admit that I think today's scientific and biological knowledge has surpassed those, though this may be to the ultimate detriment of humanity , because this knowledge is owned by the bourgeoisie , and they are highly and increasingly irresponsible all around. They are not tending toward using knowledge of things-in-themselves as things-for-us, rather as things-against-us, like anthrax, and the like. <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Miles: I stress this point because doing science is neither sufficient nor necessary to eliminate race in human societies, despite CB's claims.  I agree that science is a useful rhetorical tool in our society, but it's hardly necessary.  Let me control the mass media and parenting practices for a few generations, and race would be gone, even if all the biological research on the myth of race was lost.</BLOCKQUOTE> CB: Practically speaking the scientific community is more likely to remain more influential in forming mass opinion than you, so why not take advantage of the fact that by and large we are winning the fight on race in the scientific community. With due respect, I'm a little nervous about letting you control the mass media and parenting practices for a few generations if you don't believe in objective reality, materialism and the scientific method as the best way we have to get to the best level of relative truth today. Or do you believe in objective reality ? What are some of the other things you believe besides that race is a bad thing ?  What method did you use to decide that race isn't  "real" (?) or that it's whatever you think it is ? absolutely and solely socially constituted , perhaps ? <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> </BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML>