[lbo-talk] Re: question for feminists on the list

Dwayne Monroe idoru345 at yahoo.com
Thu Apr 1 09:01:11 PST 2004


Deborah R. posted:

It's not surprising, is it, considering how long male strip clubs have been in existence. The question becomes, I guess, are women who go to the strip clubs objectifying women just as the men are? Is this a double standard? And my suggestion would be that this is a half-full or half-empty perspective. If one assumes that all visual, aural and tactile interaction with sexual overtones with scantily clad strangers is objectifying them, then that is a negative progression according to feminists. But if one sees the same experience as the further liberation of women's sexuality, then it is a progressive movement for feminism.

=========================

Ah yes, strip clubs. Or, as the ancient Romans called them, 'strip clubs'.

To be sure, I'm not a strip club guy of which there are two types:

a.) marks, who wait with a strangely disciplined, impatient sort of patience for an opportunity to surrender cash in return for faux attention

b.) smarts, who actually get to date strippers and live the whole night lifestyle (usually club stars, owners, bouncers and allied tradespeople). Like manned spaceflight, a lot of risky, machine aided fun at first but hell on the mind and body after prolonged exposure.

No, I'm not either one of these types of guys, I prefer to find other outlets for my need for attention or secret wish for fun loving self-destruction.

Even so, I've spent a fair amount of time in strip clubs. I've spent time with friends who were in the biz, and with a group of raucous lesbians I used to hang out with every weekend.

Now the friends in the biz were fun to be with. There's nothing like borrowing the VIP aura of a bud, breezing into a club and receiving the non-faux attentions of luscious babes (and, by writing this sentence, I lose my feminist membership card -- there it goes, ripped in two and cast into the nano-recycler).

The lesbians on the other hand, although fun, were a little intense on the objectification side of the fence. Listen, slow down, take that Darvon, easy now, I'm not saying all lesbians just these lesbians.

Yup, they loved to shout "take it off" even though there really wasn't much left for the workers to remove. They were very grabby -- a lot of the women didn't dig it when these part-time roughnecks (who seemed to reserve this behavior for the club) walked through the door. Some loved "the girls" but this was far from a universal opinion.

A few of the more philosophical members of my little clique had theories to explain this -- 'patriarchy had trained these women how to behave so they unconciously acted like men when in a situation that represents the apotheosis of objectification.' I pointed out that most of the men were pretty chill; sure, there was plenty of 'male-gaze' action happening but most of the guys, well aware of the heavy physical costs of bad behavior and, I think, intimidated by the seriously lovely female forms all around, chose to slink and observe like inept, casually dressed George Clooneys.

Still, the 'patriarchical programming' argument won the day and became the officially sanctioned explanation.

After about a year of this, the strip club impulse seemed to fade away, giving way to quiet parties where, among other topics, which woman was the "most Gay" (defined as the one who never looked at a man and went, hmmmm) was discussed.

That was a good year, my annus strip clubiclus with lesbians a go-go.

DRM



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