>Sure, the Palestinians were the victims in that respect. Sure, the Israeli
>government is being terribly brutal against them now, with all the material
>power at its disposal. On the other hand, I have never understood why the
>suicide bombing tactic was such a brilliant idea.
<shrug> I'd say, after all this time, the best it can do is get a reaction out of Israel, usually a violent one in reprisal. I'm not as aware of the history of the occupation as I no doubt should be: was there ever a time when the Palestinians went after targets in power eg assassinating Israeli political leaders, blowing up Israeli official buildings, etc. as opposed to the random suicide bombings? Do any Palestininian sharpshooters ever take potshots at the bulldozers hitting the homes? Could be this sort of tactic of indiscriminate terror by suicide bomb is the best they have to offer wrt violent resistance. I suspect the choice is as much wrapped up in the religious ideology of the groups that advocate suicide bombing; someone here (Michael Pollack, I think) mentioned that there was, at the start of the Palestinian resistance, a left-secular Palestinian resistance group. Did they do the human bomb bit?
>
>If a population your country had victimized periodically set off bombs in
>restaurants and on buses in your town, killing whoever happened to be on
>the spot, would you feel disposed to give them what they wanted?
I'm a Canadian; of course I would. Especially if what they wanted made sense. That's why I don't have a problem with Quebec seperatism (though I do reserve the right and good sense to critique their bourgeois nationalist revolutionary stance).
The closest I've ever come to something like what you describe was 9-11. I was worried about the people I know and like down there in NYC, but I never felt any rush of emotion along the lines that, for example, led Leo Casey to leave this list in a huff and denounce all those who tried to understand the whys and wherefores behind the attack (of course, unlike Leo, I wasn't near the attack; that close a brush with mortality can do strange things to people, I understand).
>The Palestinian anger comes from a real grievance, but it's not surprising
>to me that the Israelis are a bit ticked off, too -- wouldn't you be?
No, it isn't surprising, so why don't they just say, "Sorry, you're right" and give the Palestinians what they want or something approximating it, instead of swearing tit-for-tat vengeance? I really think this is planned by the Zionists in charge of the country (and their apparatchiks), to a fair degree.
>
>Whatever the original rights and wrongs of this dispute were (and my
>understanding of the history of it, perhaps mistaken, is that if anyone
>deserves to pay for screwing that part of the world up, it's the Brits),
Well, the Brits sinned, but it's the Israeli boot that's going in now.
>I think the way it's being conducted at this point is just about
>guaranteeing that it will go on forever. I'm 100% in favor of the U.S.
>cutting off all aid to Israel tomorrow, but how do you answer people who
>respond to that sort of proposal with two words: "suicide bombers"?
I wouldn't have a problem with there just having an arms embargo slapped on Israel, but that won't do any good unless the basic problem(s) is/are addressed as well: land claims, resettlement, restitution, etc. That would leave a lot of pissed-off Palestinians and a lot of shit-scared Israelis with their backs against the wall. No telling what could happen then, but it wouldn't be pretty.
I liken concentrating on stopping Israel primarily with stopping a fight between a strong man and a weak man: stop the strong man first because he can take the hits, then worry about stopping the weak man.
>
>This tactic is just not helping the people who would like to be allies of
>the Palestinians put as much pressure as they could on the Israelis to stop
>their atrocities. Luke was right:
>>I don't understand 3). Suicide bombings are a consequence of the
>>political culture of some groups of Palestianians. As is often the case
>>with terrorism, they're a response to perceived injustice (the perception
>>is often veridical). The actual terrorists amongst the Palestinians tend
>>to be the least desperate.
Well, I can empathize to a point with this: one wants to do the "right thing" but one can't choose the circumstances in which doing that "right" thing could come up. You want to help the Palestinians, but you want to keep far from the "bad" bombers. It's something that keeps me up sometimes.
I honestly can't think of much of a way out except to remember that one can't always choose the circumstances in which one can act (didn't Marx say something, more pithily, to that effect?). Do the best you can. Reserve the right to critique and condemn, so long as you're doing it carefully (and THAT'S damn hard in itself). And hope others on your side can show some empathy and understanding (at least to a point).
As to Luke's comment about the actual terrorists: I'd guess these are the people who have the wherewithal to be able to commit such acts ie they don't have others depending on them for food, shelter, father/motherhood, they've got the money to burn on such "extravagances" as buying bombs to blow yourself up with, etc.
>
>It might sound foolish to say "leave your anger in the past," but unless
>someone makes a move in that direction, there will be no end to it.
Not foolish, just pointless; like shaking your fist at a hurricane, figuring that'll stop it. Putting troops in-between the combatants, for example, to stop the fighting (always assuming Israel would allow it) would work to stop or reduce the immediate problem of the killing, but that'd just give the fighters breathing space to re-arm unless the basic, material cause(s) of the fighting were addressed.
>And frankly, after this many years of a seemingly hopeless situation, and
>without my having any direct stake in it, I'm at the point of giving up
>trying to work up sympathy for either side. All I see is brutal people
>slaughtering innocent people. Tell me there is some transcendent point to
>it all.
Point to the slaughter? Well, there is a real reason why both sides continue to do it and why they'll continue to do it unless those basic problems are addressed or the context of the fight changes eg there are no more Palestinians left. But, if you'll permit me to be personal, it really sounds as though you're suffering from burn-out. If you're really feeling that way, my advice is to cut back, give yourself some slack. Burning yourself up won't make the fighting stop. Pace yourself; others can take a bit more of the load for a little while.
This is one part of being on the Left that frightens me somewhat: the sheer energy and determination, "grit", Lefties need. I know I don't have much of that, so I keep my head down as much as possible and do "little things" here and there for the nonce, leaving the heavy lifting to those who can. I'm trying to get into things a little bit at a time, to spare my own meager frame from that awful burden so many people on this list take on, but I'm in no hurry for it.
That is Dr. Archer's good advice, fresh from the psychiatry stand.
Ten cents, please.
Todd !{)>
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