>I'm puzzled by the lack of imagination the Palestinians seem to have about
>ways of resisting the occupation.
>Other occupied peoples haven't been so restricted in their tactics. Perhaps
>there are other things they're doing that are not being reported, or we
>aren't noticing, because the bombings are so dramatic.
Now you've gotten me curious about their using other tactics. I'll have to look into that.
I do know there are quite a few joint Palestinian-Israeli orgs that advocate peace by cultural exchange, dialogue, etc. I hear about them on occasion (doubt their immediate efficacy), but see below.
As for the non-reporting: could be. After all, "if it bleeds, it leads". Most mainstream news outlets that I know of want to grab your attention with "fluff" like that, so they can sell you the "important" stuff like advertising.
>To be very cynical about it, I would say that the organizations doing the
>bombing, and it is obviously very organized, including recruiting and
>training bombers and building the bombs, may have intimidated the
>Palestinian people on the street to the point that no one can do anything
>else.
I think someone here posted something to the list about Joe/Jane Palestinians getting intimidated by various orgs. I wouldn't be overly surprised if that happened. However, I don't think every Palestinian has a gun to his/her head, preventing him/her from doing something different wrt resistance.
>As for the religious ideology, I have seen reports to the effect that the
>whole "martyrdom" thing is quite important to these folks
Uh, these folks being the bombers, right?
>-- their moral justification is that because the bombers die, too, they are
>showing their sincerity and strength.
Well, killing oneself for a cause one believes in does seem pretty sincere and indicative of some strength of character. I doubt most people here would be willing to do that (from what they know of themselves now).
>I always thought that martyrs were people who were unjustly killed by
>*others,* not suicides, and that they didn't take others with them, but
>obviously I don't understand the Islamic concept.
>From Dictionary.com:
mar·tyr (märtr) n. One who chooses to suffer death rather than renounce religious principles. One who makes great sacrifices or suffers much in order to further a belief, cause, or principle.
One who endures great suffering: a martyr to arthritis. One who makes a great show of suffering in order to arouse sympathy.
tr.v. mar·tyred, mar·tyr·ing, mar·tyrs To make a martyr of, especially to put to death for devotion to religious beliefs. To inflict great pain on; torment.
[Middle English, from Old English, from Late Latin, from Late Greek martur, from Greek martus, martur-, witness.]
If there are any Islamic scholars here, does this definition square with an "Islamic" idea of martyrdom (assuming there is such a thing)? I'm pretty sure this definition applies to anyone, regardless of group affiliation, but I could be wrong . . . .
>You and I, being rather rational types, would do that, and a certain number
>of Israelis, being equally rational, are in favor of it, but most people,
>Israeli and other, are more into vengeance than we are. I think it's a
>genuine popular feeling, not "planned by Zionists."
Oops! Sorry for the confusion. The feeling isn't what's planned by the Zionists; that's what they count on, much as BushCo counted on a majority of Americans not giving a rat's ass about the deceptions and lies leading up to the invasion.
>Of course, the whole idea of founding Israel as a Jewish state wasn't
>rational in the first place, IMHO. Certainly there was plenty of criticism
>of the Zionist idea among Jews from the very beginning, and I would have
>agreed with the critics. But then I wasn't a Jew trying to deal with the
>anti-Semitism of the 19th century.
Well, creating a "Jewish place" for Jews to "feel at home" (assuming they can't do it where they live already) wasn't a bad idea; I could get behind the feelings that engendered it, much as I can sympathize with anarchism; it was certainly a bit more practical at the time than, say, demanding the authorities create and enforce hate crime legislation. But they really could have picked a better ie uninhabited place (and I think there was a place like that on the list of possible Jewish "homelands").
>Not so much burn-out, but sheer frustration at seeing this thing going on
>endlessly, with the US establishment and (I guess, not having seen any
>opinion polls on the subject) a big majority of the people so solidly
>behind whatever the Israeli government wants.
Well, stand down for a bit, eh? Can't hurt. Might help.
>Now Sharon is back presenting his backside for the ritual U.S. kiss, and
>Shrub apparently will give it to him in the form of acquiescence in the
>keeping of the main West Bank settlements. Perhaps I have a residual bit of
>the American attitude that all problems are soluble that I haven't been
>able to get rid of yet.
<indignant snort!> Marx wasn't an American. Neither was Ghandi. Or Robert the Bruce for that matter.
Todd
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