[lbo-talk] Re: Democracy and Constitutional Rights

Todd Archer todda39 at hotmail.com
Thu Aug 12 15:14:42 PDT 2004


Miles said:

<snip>
>If people in a community somewhere didn't want to live according to the U.
>S. Bill of Rights,
>should they be compelled to?

No. But so long as every single member of that community understands what that amounts to (and what alternatives there are) and can change that decision "collectively" eg by voting or "individually" eg by leaving the community and that matter doesn't affect others adversely outside the community, why bother with compulsion about that particular matter?

Miles also said:


>Well, I'm ambivalent about the implied moral authority
>of the UN here. It's like female genital mutilation
>(or female circumcision): according to our principles,
>it's gross sexism, and I'm sure it violates the UN
>declaration. However, it is a practice that most
>women in these cultures actively participate in (they
>do the ritual cutting, and they consider it an
>important rite of passage into female adulthood).

How about putting it in "head-to-head" competition on a "level playing field" with values that challenge that? Let those who want to forgo it do so, and those who want to do it do so.


>Is it morally right for people in Western societies
>to impose their values and principles on these
>cultures?

Is it "morally right" to forbid "Western values" from coming into contact with "non-Western" cultures?

Isn't what you're talking about a sort of "curatorial" logic of power-to-withhold-change? To leave cultures "untainted" from "Western culture" when culture changes all the time?


>Part of me wants to say yes, sexism is bad, and the
>mutilation of these women is unconscionable.
>Another part of me says no, it is moral colonialism
>for me to impose my moral standards on people who
>are as committed to their beliefs as I am to mine.


>All of this is why moral philosophy drives me
>bonkers.

So put it into a non-moral context: let people choose freely in a context that allows them to.

Doug said:


>Genital cutting is horrifying, and way beyond my culturally relativistic
>limits.

Pro-choice for genital cutting! Viva! !{)>

Todd

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