[lbo-talk] Christians from Hell

Michael Dawson MDawson at pdx.edu
Thu Dec 16 13:04:53 PST 2004


Materialism, properly used, doesn't deny that ideas have effects. It simply cautions not to stop there.

Meanwhile, Carrol wasn't making any point. He was belittling the useful and interesting post Kelley made, and calling it "evidence of nothing."

Fundamentalist Christianity doesn't explain itself, but neither is it a mere spurious phenomenon. It is one of the main competitors of leftist democracy.

And, as a materialist, you can't be really serious in wondering which is the chicken and which the egg, can you? Conservatism and the lack of a left and a serious welfare state, all of which are reflections of the enormous power of our overclass, gave rise to the fundie movement, not the other way around.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
> On Behalf Of T Fast
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 11:03 AM
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Christians from Hell
>
>
> I don't know when a valid form of argumentation became, X usually says
> shit
> so anything X says must be shit and therefor we dont have to engage with
> the
> substance of the argument put forward by X.
>
> I think Carrol asks an important question: is christian fundemenatlism an
> ideological resource ready to hand that conservatives gravitate towards to
> legitimate their conservatism or populist reactions? Or rather, is
> christian
> fundementalism that which produces conservatism and populist reaction?
> The
> former makes one want to ask the further question about why people come to
> hold conservative values and employ reactionary populism. The latter
> terminates the conversation.
>
> It seems the Repub strategists took the latter path to the former as did
> fundementalist preachers. Who new materialism would be taken seriously by
> the right and derrided by the left.
>
> Travis
>
>
> Carrol wrote:
> > Does their xtianity flow from their conservatism or their conservatism
> > from the xtianity, or do both flow from some X not covered in the exit
> > polls?
> >
> > What evidence is there that their religious belief is an independent
> > variable?
>
> To which M. Dawson replied:
>
> Everybody who's Carrol Cox or properly worships Carrol Cox knows that
> fundamentalist Christianity has no independent impact on American
> politics!
> Duh. Obvious!
>
>
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