[lbo-talk] real world labels include 'zionism' and 'zionist'

John Bizwas bizwas at lycos.com
Mon Dec 27 21:34:34 PST 2004



>>All of these political labels are pretty arbitrary -- most of them are made up in order to tar one's opponents (see the Adams quote below). In reality, a lot of people take the position that Israel, at this point, is a country that will and should continue to exist, while a peaceful settlement between it and the Palestinians is also necessary. You can call them "Zionists" if you want, but there are also other terms. What matters is not the terms but the real world.
Jon Johanning // jjohanning at igc.org>>

Huh? Get real Jon. The people who believe Israel should be a 'Jewish' state, separate from the majority culture of Palestine have called themselves 'zionists'. Zionism in its current forms could be called an Israeli religious nationalism (that costs the US taxpayer 5 billion plus dollars year).

Real terms in the real world, Jon. No one is tarring them with the label, but rather what they stand for and what they do: they have founded a rogue apartheid nation, justifying their conquests on foundation myths of non-existent 'blood and soil' links between European Jews and modern Palestine, right down to misinterpreted genetic studies, the falsely interpreted archeology, nonsense 'biblical' historical narratives, and the revived faux 'semitic' language, modern Hebrew, which is really more a Slavic creole than a Semitic language. Why don't you anwser the question I asked you in the previous post?

Ref:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/zionism.html


>>Zionism, the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, advocated, from its inception, tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of all persuasions, left and right, religious and secular, joined to form the Zionist movement and worked together toward these goals. Disagreements led to rifts, but ultimately, the common goal of a Jewish state in its ancient homeland was attained. The term "Zionism" was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum.>>

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/General_Zionism.html


>>General Zionism was initially the term used for the beliefs of all members of the Zionist Organization [ZO] who had not joined a specific faction or party - belonging to their countrywide Zionist organizations only. Over the years, the General Zionists, too, created ideological institutions and joined the Organization of General Zionists, established in 1922 as a centrist party in the ZO. The precepts of the General Zionists included Basle-style Zionism free of ideological embellishments and the primacy of Zionism over any class, party, or personal interest. This party, in its many metamorphoses, championed causes such as the encouragement of private initiative and protection of middle-class rights. In 1931, the General Zionists split into Factions A and B as a result of disagreements over issues of concern in Palestine: social affairs, economic matters, the attitude toward the General Federation of Jewish Labor (the Histadrut), etc. In 1945, the factions reunited. >>

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/Anti-Zionism.html

1. >>Jews who criticize or oppose Zionism are usually Orthodox and maintain that Israel can only be regained miraculously. They view the present state as a blasphemous human attempt to usurp G-d's role, and they work to dismantle Israel. However, unlike many gentile anti-Zionists, they firmly believe in the Jewish right to Israel, but only at that future time of redemption. The best-known of the religious anti-Zionists are the Neturei Karta. >>

vs.

2. >>The religious counter-reply to the above is that secular Zionism is a preliminary stage of religious Zionism, and that the vows no longer apply since the gentiles violated their part (by such actions as the Roman persecutions, the Spanish Inquisition and the Nazi Holocaust). The Balfour Declaration of 1917 and the United Nations partition vote of 1947 are also regarded as having given permission to the Jews to reestablish the state by the non-Jewish rulers of the area.>>

plus


>>Some Religious Zionist Jews see the formation of the secular state as accelerating the process of redemption, with themselves playing a major role in doing G-d's will by serving the state, whose creation is often seen as miraculous.>>

vs.

4. >>So-called "non-Zionist" Jews are pleased that Israel exists from a practical standpoint-as a haven for oppressed Jews and as a land imbued with holiness well-suited for Torah study. But they don't generally assign religious significance to the formation of the modern state, and often decry aspects of its secular culture.>>

vs.

5. basically secular even agnostic and atheist zionists (which the website above seems reluctant to discuss).

vs.

6. basically secular even agnostic and atheist people whose ancestors were Jews who are against Israel (which the website above seems reluctant to discuss)

vs.

7. gentiles like myself (who may or may not have had 'Jewish' blood in my mixed ancestry, and, like the all the other issues of 'race' and 'blood', just don't care, except for things like malarial resistance, fava bean allergies, and sickel cell etc ) and who think the current, racist, xenophobic, national security state of Israel is an abomination.

vs.

many other real world categories, including many many people who don't think like you Jon.

F

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