Beg pardon for tossing more brouhaha into the mix, but did you read this one, Michael D.? http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/pipermail/lbo-talk/Week-of-Mon-20041101/025746.html Todd PS: Justin, I know from a quick scan of the archives you've mentioned Ollman a few times, but I think you were silent about this particular piece; what do you think of it?