[lbo-talk] [Fwd: Re: Ralph Nader, Unsafe at any Speed-not in my name]

[Carrol Cox]

The position condemned in the following fwd from psn has been defended
by some on this list; it has even more often been ascribed as the
generic position of "marxist revolutionaries," usually without even an
example of it being given. I think Alan's position has been the basic
position of nearly all marxists of all times and places. Alan's position
is mine. If anyone ever ascribe's a position similar to Nate's (quoted
below) to me, I wish in advance to brand that person a liar. I have
never in my 39 years of political activity (I was 35 when I became
active) advocated such an absurd position as "the worse the better." I
don't know any serious marxist who has..

Years ago a friend in the Spanish department at ISU use to stop by my
office to argue politics. We would get along fine until he would tell me
that as a marxist I had to believe "the worse the better." At which time
I would always say, "Get the fuck out of my office, Gordon." This
identical conversation was repeated a number of times. :-)

Carrol

-------- Original Message --------
Subject:  Re: Ralph Nader, Unsafe at any Speed-not in my name

   Date:   Sun, 22 Feb 2004 08:07:04 -0800 (PST)

  From:  Alan Spector <a_spector at sbcglobal.net>

    To:     psn at csf.colorado.edu

While I respect Nate's genuine sincerity and I share in his frustration
at the slowness of social change, and I share some of his  skepticism
about the Democrats, I really have to completely separate myself from
this comment (excerpted below) of his:

Nate Breznau <nbreznau2112 at hotmail.com> wrote: So I submit that there is
a good chance that I will vote 3rd  party. If Bush gets elected it might
actually be SO bad that it creates some  more serious social movements
in our apathetic country.  -Nate

As I've written before, I know very few on the left who take the
discredited position of "the worse it gets for people, the more  they
will rebel, and then good change will come about." I guess there are a
few, after all.

But do not characterize the entire "more militant" left was having that
position. Many of them/us work very hard, day in and day  out, with
grassroots people, to try to ameliorate the misery of capitalism as we
build a movement against it. Harder, perhaps, than  many (I didn't say
"all") of the Democratic Party supporters whose only contribution is to
vote.

Our criticisms of "moderates" is not that we reject a practical, partial
gain for others because we want to hold to our own pure  philosophies.
Our criticisms come from a practical concern that the "moderate
capitalists" will continue to oppress hundreds of  millions (not a small
number) and furthermore, that the grassroots movement to ameliorate and
eventually fundamentally change  the racist, abusive capitalist system
will be weakened, even controlled and essentially destroyed if it is led
by the capitalists.

But our criticisms are not based on the foolish idea that if the working
class can be damaged even more, then they will fight back.  If you
purposefully work to damage the lives of the working class, they will
correctly blame YOU as part of the problem.  Alan Spector