>At 06:33 PM 2/27/2004, you wrote:
>>>I AM a redneck. I was calling myself a redneck.
>>
>>You did not refer to yourself as a redneck but rather you typed "i'm from
>>upstate redneck new york". I might have thought you would have covered
>>basic composition before graduate school.
>
>I'm afeared yo gonna have to lick your calf over. I _intended_ to write
>that for reasons I gave you'n.
>
>(Of course, creative snipping on your part was far preferable wasn't it?
>That way, you could simply insult me rather than deal with what I wrote.)
You can try to finesse this anyway you want but the word "redneck" in the sentence you typed does not refer to you. The only thing I snipped from the sentence was (hi carl). What's insulting is that you seem to believe that if you repeat that assertion enough times I would assume it's true. I'll pass on the calf licking.
>What's more interesting, to me, is that it didn't occur to three of you
>that I might BE a redneck. If I'd been talking about "the ghetto" and had
>said, "I'm from the ghetto" in order to justify my use of ghetto language,
>would you necessarily think that I'm disparaging people from the ghetto?
>Or would you think I'm _identifying_ (even if ambivalently) with people
>from "the ghetto"?
You're jumping to a rather odd conclusion here. I am well aware of your rural origins as is anyone else who has been on this list for any extended period of time. What is interesting to me is why you should assume, based on what I wrote, that I was unaware of your roots when you quite plainly listed it.
>>>You might want to know, too, that in Florida people proudly call
>>>themselves cracker.
>>
>>You might want to know that an African American roommate of mine called
>>himself n-word. You must believe that it is only racist for me to say
>>that word and not for him.
>
>You just did. I don't think your use of it is racist, though just like me
>and everyone in this country, we're racist. Now Charles has indicated he's
>troubled by the use of it at all, even if it's reporting what someone else
>has said.
I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that if Charles is troubled by my quoting what an old roommate of mine called himself that he is equally troubled by the use of the word by African Americans. I would hope so. While I did type the word I had reservations about doing so as I know how offensive it is. Using it may or not have been a poor judgement call on my part and I would certainly be open to anyone who wished to criticize my use of it. Is it less offensive if I'm of African American descent? I have never told anyone my racial composition so as far as anyone on this list knows I may be. My last name is not exactly uncommon in African American families. Unless of course anyone thinks I have to be white because I don't "write black enough", whatever that may mean. I use that phrase because I have heard it many times before. As far as everyone being racist it is unfortunately the baggage we all carry to one extent or the other just by living in any currently existing society.
>i happen to think there is always space for that discussion and debate, and
>i would much prefer it if it was banalised by a recognition that racism and
>sexism permeates what we do here than to shift it into the realm of
>rhetorical insult (as if it is some kind of wilful malevolence), which is
>largely and unfortunately where it remains now. and, it's as insult that
>it becomes enjoyment and the basis for identification, both for those who
>do the calling and those who are called. that is, there should always be
>a debate and discussion on whether or not some comment or perspective is
>racist. what happens more often than not however is that discussion is
>halted, usually at the line of 'if a woman says x is sexist then it is
>true'; this is all too troubling so we should stop now; 'you are being
>racist when you say x'; 'you are/you aren't'; etc...
>
>Kelley
I don't recall writing anything willfully malevolent or any rhetorical insults. The nearest thing to malevolent I've seen written in relation to this thread was a reference for a poster to "put it back in his pants", and "wrap his lips around someone's ass". I am aware that those are misquotes but I am not searching the archives to find the exact wording of something so banal. This thread seems to me to have come to an end. You believe that because you are from a rural working class background that entitles you to refer to upstate rural working class New York state as "redneck". Your authenticity somehow transcends the offensiveness of the term. I do not believe that. We will in all probability never come to agree on this issue. Reasonable people can disagree. I assume, again perhaps incorrectly, that you chose the quote from Angela about "the enjoyment of distinction, superiority" because you believe my pointing out the offensiveness of the term redneck was an attempt to assert some sort of distinction of superiority on my part. I would not waste my time trying to convince you otherwise as you have probably already cemented in your mind that my intention was so. Too bad.
John Thornton