> >Out of nowhere?
>
>Yes, out of nowhere. He was rambling on in his answer to Aaron, and
>out flew the porn remark. It was weird and striking. Maybe you had
>to be there.
I've only your words to go by, and you aren't the most impartial commentator on Nader at this moment, to put it mildly. I'd love to hear from folks who neither support nor oppose the Nader candidacy. The debate in question must be the one recorded on the video hawked by Global Exchange at <http://store.globalexchange.org/debonwtoandg.html>. I'm flat broke, so I don't wanna shell out $20 (especially as I am not in the mood for financially patronizing Global Exchange right now). Anyone got a transcript?
> >Pornography, prostitution, drugs, slavery, child labor, babies,
> >corpses, body parts, weapons, explosives, live animals, plants, etc.
>>are relatively common examples used in arguments (pros or cons or
>>anything in-between) about regulation and deregulation of
>>commodities in intrastate and interstate trades. Cf. Michael
>>Perelman, "more posner fun," December 2, 1999,
>><http://squawk.ca/lbo-talk/9912/0087.html>.
>
>Porn certainly doesn't belong on a list with corpses and weapons.
>
> >Isn't production and distribution of porn already restricted in
>>various respects? For instance, it is illegal to produce,
>>distribute, and consume child pornography almost anywhere in the
>>world (with one possible exception of occupied Iraq).
>
>The reason to prohibit child porn is if children are used in producing it.
Some of what is called "child porn" can be merely porn whose producers knowingly or unknowingly employ underage actors, say, 16 year olds rather than 18 years old.
>Under the Decency Act, however, even Photoshopped immages are
>illegal, which I think is none of the state's business. And I bet
>you would, too, if Nader weren't in the picture.
I oppose the Communications Decency Act. Kerry, however, supported it:
"Like Joe Lieberman, Kerry markets himself as a cultural prude, regularly chiding teens about the kind of clothes they wear, the music they listen to and the movies they watch. But even Lieberman didn't go so far as to support the censorious Communications Decency Act. Kerry did. Fortunately, even this Supreme Court had the sense to strike the law down, ruling that it trampled across the First Amendment" (Jeffrey St. Clair, "The Demise of the Green Party," <a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/stclair07022004.html">July 2, 2004</a>).
Nader, on the other hand, fought the bill to which the CDA was attached -- the Telecommunications Act of 1996: see, for instance, <http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/telecom-act-of-96.html>.
I submit that you have no idea who is the defender of free speech -- including obscenity -- and who is the supporter of increasing corporate power that simultaneously restricts obscenity as well as other forms of free speech.
> >If you have evidence that Kerry is softer on "corporate
> >pornography and violence beamed to children at a very impressionable
>>age" than Nader and that Kerry is campaigning on a promise to
>>liberalize the existing laws that regulate pornography, however, I'm
>>all ears. :-)
>
>I'm assuming he'd be more likely to pay it little mind than a
>Republican, as would the judges he'd appoint.
You assume too much. Nader, forgive Doug for he knows not what he does. ;-)
> >> - how could a consumer advocate endorse import restrictions, since
>>>they'd reduce choice and raise prices? Nader's answer was
>>>uncharacteristically rambling, and then out burst the porn remark.
>>
>>Consumer advocates are not necessarily ideological champions of the
>>idea that free trade in the global free market, working through its
>>laws of demand and supply, alone should determine what we produce,
>>distribute, and consume, nor do they necessarily advocate the idea
>>that the cheaper is always the better.
>
>Nader didn't give that answer
Well, obviously, I like my answers better than Nader's on most questions most of the times, and I'm glad that you do, too. ;-)
> >>PS: This "Naderphobia" thing is kind of weird. I'm not afraid of
> >>him, or afflicted with a psychopathological hatred; I just want him
>>>to stop running for president and do something constructive
>>>instead. That's a rational, hateless position.
>>
>>You *fear* that some Americans, who either have not paid much
>>attention to the Anybody But Bush ravings or do not give a damn
>>about them, will vote for Nader, therefore you support the efforts
>>of Democrats to keep Nader off the ballots, for you *fear* that
>>American voters *cannot be trusted to vote for Kerry* if they are
>>given the choice to Nader or not to Nader, even though Nader's
>>defeat in ballot access will have undemocratic legal ramifications
>>*beyond* the Nader campaign. That's phobia -- a *fear of demos*
>>beyond the bounds of democratic reason.
>
>It's not fear at all. I oppose his candidacy. I wish he wouldn't
>run, but if he does, I wish people wouldn't vote for him. Fear has
>nothing to do with it.
It is remarkable that Nader is still polling better than in 2000, *despite* a much higher level of attacks leveled against him this year than in 2000. I conclude that a larger number of Americans are fed up with the profit-driven empire than in 2000, and it is they, not Nader himself, in whom we should take interest and with whim we should ally, before and after the election day.
>Nader and a lot of his supporters refuse to admit that they'd drain
>votes from Kerry. What are they afraid of? Presumably candidates run
>to win, which means taking votes from other people. Do they fear
>admitting this?
The answer is simple. Nader has a higher opinion of the Democratic Party than I do, and Nader does disservice to us for this reason, underselling his own campaign's potential, as Howie Hawkins, a NY Green Nader supporter, has repeatedly said, among other critical supporters of Nader. -- Yoshie
* Critical Montages: <http://montages.blogspot.com/> * Bring Them Home Now! <http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/> * Calendars of Events in Columbus: <http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/calendar.html>, <http://www.freepress.org/calendar.php>, & <http://www.cpanews.org/> * Student International Forum: <http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/> * Committee for Justice in Palestine: <http://www.osudivest.org/> * Al-Awda-Ohio: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda-Ohio> * Solidarity: <http://www.solidarity-us.org/>