This odd interpretation of my post is your own and so are the faulty logic and moral problems. I was simply pointing out in response to your assertion, which I of course agree with, that "Jews" qua Jews are not a nationality or government" that right-wing Jewish political activists conflate the term Jewish with Israel (e.g. JINSA). This is not a recommendation that it is 'OK' to follow suit, rather, it points out how problematic the use of these terms are. Anti-semites use the term "Jewish" along with other well known code words for same, and conflate Jews with Israel, while many Jews and Israelis also use the terms interchangeably, JINSA being a case in point. People also sometimes conflate Jews and Israel not because they are anti-semitic but because of either intellectual laziness or confusion. There are some people on this list who treat any mention of Jews like the crowd at the public stoning in Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' who would mercillessly stone anyone who says 'Jehovah' regardless of meaning or context.
Joe W.
I will now bravely await Doug's admonition for my overposting. I'd rather that, even on pain of excommunication from the LBO list than wait for another 24hrs by which time I'll be on to other things.
>From: Liza Featherstone <lfeather at panix.com>
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
>Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Double Standard: Israel and Saudi Arabia
>Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:47:57 -0400
>
>1) The first paragraph of your post seems, in a juvenile fashion, to
>suggest
>that because some racist Zionists equate "Jewish" and "Israeli" it's OK for
>the rest of us to do so. The logical and moral problems with this
>"reasoning" are pretty obvious.
>
>2) Your second paragraph so misinterprets my post it isn't worth responding
>to. I suggest reading other people's posts before weighing in.
>
>3)As for your last sentence, maybe, maybe not, but merely re-asserting
>what's already been argued isn't going to advance the conversation.
>
>Liza
>
> > From: "Joseph Wanzala" <jwanzala at hotmail.com>
> > Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> > Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 13:34:08 -0700
> > To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> > Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Double Standard: Israel and Saudi Arabia
> >
> > How about JINSA, the "Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, a
> > non-profit, non-partisan educational organization committed to
>explaining
> > the need for a prudent national security policy for the United States,
> > addressing the security requirements of both the United States and the
>State
> > of Israel, and strengthening the strategic cooperation relationship
>between
> > these two great democracies." ? Here the term 'Jewish' and "Israel' are
>seen
> > as co-extensive.
> > http://www.jinsa.org/about/about.html
> > http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20020902&s=vest
> >
> > As to the business of how confortable Bush is with other rich people, in
> > contrast to Clinton, let's not forget that while Clinton himself came
>from
> > humble beginnings, his cabinet was surpassed in its number of
>millionares
> > only by the current Bush cabinet and most of Clinton's closest non-white
> > consorts, other than the people in the photo ops, were wealthy African
> > Americans like Vernon Jordan and Ron Brown.
> >
> > The portrayal of the Saudis in F911 was very problematic indeed.
> > ___________________________
> >
> > Liza Featherstone wrote:
> >
> > I actually think "Saudi" money is OK, just as it's OK to talk about U.S.
> > or
> > Israeli or British or French money. And we do talk about U.S. money: the
>US
> > money in Israel sustaining the occupation, etc. The reason the term
>"Jewish
> > money" creeps us out -- and it should -- is because "Jews" qua Jews are
>not
> > a nationality or government or any kind of body from whom "money" can
> > reasonably said to originate. Jews cannot as a body write a check. Some
> > Jews as individuals send money to pro-Israeli groups, others send money
>to
> > anti-war groups, or subscribe to LBO. To talk about "Jewish money"
> > substitutes a racist cliche for analysis, as we all agree. Inasmuch as
>talk
> > about "Saudi" money is similarly not always about the government, it
>risks a
> > similar racism, but when we make clear we are talking about the Saudi
> > elites, who effectively do run the country, I think it is acceptable. I
> > think Moore in his film did do that, especially with the shots of Bush
> > senior cavorting with the Saudi ruling class. There the message was not,
> > look, he's hanging out with these weird scary Arabs, but rather, look
>how
> > comfortable he is with other rich people, regardless of apparent
>cultural
> > barriers. Unlike Clinton, Bush I was not a guy was often shown relaxing
>and
> > kicking back with people very different from himself, so the image is
> > striking, making you think, oh, maybe they are not so different: perhaps
> > globally, the ruling class is his "base" rather than the American people
>who
> > voted for him.
> >
> > Liza
> >
> >
> > ___________________________________
> > http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
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