[lbo-talk] For Carrol, Chip and Kelley...part 1

snit snat snitilicious at tampabay.rr.com
Fri Jul 30 11:46:25 PDT 2004


your hostility to your ex-wife and your assumption that all women are out to fuck men over. I'm not really going on about anything. You have an issue from personal experience (you seem pissed at your mother, too) and you let it color everything. that's why I think you don't especially like women. so? it's just you. whatever. that's why it doesn't register on the snit dick-sling-o-meter, for me.

At 02:17 PM 7/30/2004, Chuck Grimes wrote:


>``It wasn't the words, it was the tone and imagery that
>bothered....Chuck Grimes' personal issues with women and his barely
>concealed hostility toward them as a group because of his particular
>experiences just doesn't register..'' Kelley
>
>------------
>
>This is interesting. I don't think I've ever written anything about
>women that was hostile to women as a class. I usually don't write
>about women at all, and the posts in question were no exception. I was
>writing about men.
>
>So, I had to reflect on what the various threads that have come
>spinning off of my rant against Rightwing masculinity were really
>about.
>
>Why was Carrol so worked up? Why did Chip breeze in out of the blue?
>What got Kelley started? I thought I was actually channelling some of
>Kelley's dick-o-meter rants. My attack on a certain kind of
>masculinity that I see celebrated by the Right---which is what I
>thought I was doing shouldn't offend women and certainly wasn't gay
>bashing. It should have sounded like the opposite of either one. So,
>what's this about?
>
>But it was the above quote that made it click. Kelley and I have done
>our rounds together, but the issues have almost always had to do with
>men, not women. I half remember once something Kelley wrote about her
>step-mother and violence. That was the key. The issue is violence, not
>gender. Kelley's problem with me isn't my hostility toward women. It's
>my hostility period.
>
>That's what is going on here. Aggression and violence. That's the real
>issue, and the real dynamic. That's what got Carrol, Chip, and Kelley
>going.
>
>And it's true. I am a violent person. In fact, I had to quit my job
>two months ago because I was feeling the need to beat the shit out of
>a former work buddy. Well, give it a good try anyway. He had about
>about half a foot and maybe ninety pounds on me. He had turned into
>the shop bully and I wasn't going to take any shit from him. It was
>getting serious. He had been pushing everybody in the shop around for
>months, and then he started in on me. The last day I worked, I came
>within a hair of swinging on him. I threw a leg rest at his work bench
>instead. He had tuned me up good. So I quit.
>
>I live in a violent world. I always have, except for a few years in
>nice, nice middle class and college. Working in shops and in places
>like Oakland puts the edge on. It is almost impossible to get out of a
>truck and knock on a door without keeping that edge ready. It's always
>there and it doesn't go away when I get home. It has to be constantly
>controlled in all kinds of strange games with other men and authority,
>especially cops. Cops live for this kind of thing.
>
>I am not sure why my visceral hatred of the Right, just about
>everybody in the current US government, or on the news should bother
>Carrol, Chip or Kelley, but it does. I guess, it's like living next
>door to a violent criminal. You never know when the crazy asshole will
>jump the fence and start pounding on your door. What can I say? This
>is e-mail. You're all safe. I know who my enemies are and none of you
>are anything like them. I consider you all e-mail friends. People I
>like to read and occasionally argue with.
>
>Still there is room for doubt. I admire some of the terrorists. I
>admired the tough, skinny, rag covered guys in Afghanistan, with that
>burning eyed look. That's a scary look. That's something wild. Maybe
>its just some nutritional deficiency. Whatever it is, it's scary.
>
>I knew from mountain experience, US troops could never go after these
>guys and get them on foot. You can't air drop on a mountain over
>twelve thousand feet and start running and fighting. So they bombed
>them instead.
>
>Anyway I admire the Iraqis, especially the back yard mechanics who
>support the fight. Half of Baghdad must be back yard mechanics. I
>cheer every time I see a Humvee or an SUV burn. They positively exude
>smug authority, empire, oppression, bullies. They are begging to get
>torched.
>
>I hate the US military, I hate the cops.
>
>I rise to the bait every time. Wave a smug authoritarian bully in front
>of me, and I get an adrenaline rush.
>
>It's physiological so it isn't courage. I can feel it in my armpits,
>my crouch, and especially my wrists. Fight or flight. So, yes my
>politics are hard wired to my dick. Truthfully I don't know why this
>works the way it does, but it's there.
>
>So, let's talk about violence and authority. Okay, gender is in there
>somewhere. Only from my perspective it has nothing to do with
>women. It is somehow the opposite of anything to do with women. My
>provisional theory is Carrol, Chip and Kelley were feeling some splash
>over or something like it. That was not the intention, so I apologize. I
>am sorry. Perhaps this isn't the place to vent against the Rightwing.
>
>Charles wrote something about male supremacy. Maybe that's it. Except
>my adrenaline wiring says, kill the Alpha male. GWB and the Right are
>smug authoritarian, imperialistic, oppressive, bullies....all alpha
>male characters who drive Humvees and SUVS...ergo...my physiology says
>kill them all.
>
>
>CG
>
>
>___________________________________
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"We're in a fucking stagmire."

--Little Carmine, 'The Sopranos'



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