Re: Bohemian Grove.
So, how come the yearly organizing against the Bohemian Grove Roman Toga Ruling Class Conclaves is dominated by loons like Mary Moore? Bill Domhoff spoke w/ Mary for hours trying to dissuade her from her kwazier notions. That feature the far right, Austin, TX. talk radio show host, Alex Jones (also featured in one of the 9-11 documentaries that a former local NLG official is also featured in) spinning his theories that what really happens there (go to his website for a clip of his "documentary") is paedophilic, Satanic child sacrifice.
And, guess you won't respond to to material about your source on the Bilderbergers, Tony Gosling. http://j12.org/files/bilder.htm
> ...On his page: http://www.bilderberg.org/jewish.htm#Fast
He points people to "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion"
where he says: "Well-known book 'Warrant for Genocide' attempts to prove the Protocols to be a forgery."
So he he knows of the Norman Cohn's book which not only attempts but does actually prove they are a forgery. Why does Tony Gosling want to put this simply as an 'attempt'. This book brings together proof that has appeared before in many places including the Times in 1921 showing how they are based on Dialogue aux Enfers a satire against Napoleon. Does Tony Gosling believe this earlier work was not published? Warrant for Genocide is well worth reading for it overview on evolution of anti-Semitism, but some info on the forgery of the Protocols can be found at: http://www.masonicinfo.com/protocols.htm
He says "Some elements, led presumably by Zionists or other Jews, attempt to suppress discussion of the document, even though it usually leads to the conclusion that the documents are forgeries." I think most are just keen to point out how bogus the document is, and wary of those such as Tony who take and interest in it, like many parents might are wary of people who point to written child porn to undertsand child-adult sexual relations even though they say it would not for most people.
Well I suggest people do read Norman Cohn, Warrant for Genocide: The Myth of the Jewish World Conspiracy and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, (London: Serif, 1996 (1967)).
I don't doubt that in Tony's eyes Spotlight's corespondents seem like 'a sincere, concerned pair', (Tony G in Squall) but for him to publish that is a apology for Nazis. And to offset this Tony's may describe Spotlight as the 'sometimes seemingly xenophobic right-wing magazine', but for me this is not enough to excuse his praise. But he praises them even more later in his article in Squall.
Tony G is still pushing the ex-spotlight crowd at: http://www.americanfreepress.net . He does not just link to a particular page on there site in a footnote ref but generally pushes them as a source for understanding the way the world is. He can't see anything far right about them. I hope you have do better because I think that would be quite telling off you.
If you have not read Spotlight which has now folded then check this out from: http://www.publiceye.org/ RIGHT WOOS LEFT - 3
by Chip Berlet, Political Research Associates
Liberty Lobby
Among the most influential ultra-right groups in the U.S. is the virulently anti-Jewish Liberty Lobby. With its newspaper Spotlight, Liberty Lobby spreads racialism across the U.S., and serves as a bridge to the paramilitary and neo-Nazi right. The Washington Post has described Spotlight as a "newspaper containing orthodox conservative political articles interspersed with anti-Zionist tracts and classified advertisements for Ku Klux Klan T-shirts, swastika-marked German coins and cassette tapes of Nazi marching songs." That description is actually mild.
Spotlight, with a readership of some 200,000, claims it is neither anti- Jewish nor pro-Nazi, but one article referred to the Waffen SS, the elite corps of ideological Nazis, as a "multinational anti-communist mass movement, which was, in fact, the largest all-volunteer army in history." The Spotlight also celebrates neo-Nazi skinheads and the apartheid government of South Africa.
Liberty Lobby, Spotlight, the International Revisionist Conference, the Institute for Historical Review (IHR), Noontide Press, and IHR's Journal of Historical Review are all projects of Willis Carto, one of America's most influential racial theorists. Carto is described by the London-based anti- fascist magazine Searchlight as the "leading US publisher of anti-semitic, racist and pro-Nazi material."
Carto and Liberty Lobby were influential in creating the racialist Populist Party and were primarily responsible for elevating David Duke to national attention as an electoral candidate. In the spring of 1985 the Populist Party held a major meeting in Chicago where the armed and confrontational activities of racist and anti-Jewish groups in rural America were saluted as "heroic," according to persons who attended the meeting. One group of rural farm activists from the Midwest left the meeting after complaining that too many of the attendees were obsessed with Jews. (A series of political and financial schisms has ended the direct relationship between Liberty Lobby and the Populist Party, although both groups still share many of the fundamental anti-Jewish and racist theories.) The forces around the Populist Party believe a conspiracy of rich and powerful Jews and their allies control banking, foreign policy, the CIA and the media in the United States. Like Duke, they also believe in an America controlled by white Christians of exclusively European heritage.
The pseudo-scholarly Institute for Historical Review is a "revisionist" research center and publishing house that popularizes the calumny that the historical account of the Nazi Holocaust is a Jewish hoax, an idea central to Carto's worldview. According to researcher Russ Bellant, early in his career Willis Carto produced the magazine Western Destiny, which grew out of the Nordicist Northern World and a vociferously anti-Jewish magazine called Right. Right recommended support for the American Nazi Party and was edited by E. L. Anderson who was associate editor of Western Destiny. Critics and co-workers of Carto claim E. L. Anderson was a pseudonym for Willis Carto.
Liberty Lobby staff and supporters helped stage the 1978 meeting of the World Anti-Communist League, a group that networks fascist movements around the globe. According to the Washington Post, Liberty Lobby workers distributed publications including Spotlight at the WACL meeting. A few years later, after a change of leadership and some mostly-cosmetic housecleaning to oust a few ardent Nazi groups, WACL came under the leadership of retired General John "Jack" Singlaub. Singlaub used WACL to raise money and support for the Contras, and Singlaub and WACL were implicated in the Iran-Contra hearings for having served as a cover and money laundry for the activities of Oliver North.
While the John Birch Society trumpets jingoistic patriotism laced with conspiracy theories, according to scholar Frank P. Mintz, the Liberty Lobby voices "racist and anti-Semitic beliefs in addition to conspiracism." Mintz explains:
Structurally, the Lobby was a most unusual umbrella organization catering to constituencies spanning the fringes of Neo-Nazism to the John Birch Society and the radical right. It was not truly paramilitary, in the manner of the Ku Klux Klan and Nazis, but was more accurately an intermediary between racist paramilitary factions and the recent right.
The Liberty Lobby is thus quasi-Nazi, promoting many of the themes of fascism and racial nationalism, and certainly networking and being used by persons and groups who are neo-Nazi. The harshest critics of Liberty Lobby say that it should just be called neo-Nazi, arguing that formulations such as quasi-Nazi are academic rather than useful.
Former staffers at both the Liberty Lobby and LaRouche's group claim both outfits have cooperated closely on several projects. In the March 2, 1981 issue of its newspaper Spotlight, Liberty Lobby cynically defended the relationship this way:
It is mystifying why so many anti-communists and `conservatives' oppose the USLP [U.S. Labor Party--LaRouche's original electoral arm, ed.]. No group has done so much to confuse, disorient, and disunify the Left as they have...the USLP should be encouraged, as should all similar breakaway groups from the Left, for this is the only way that the Left can be weakened and broken.
More recently, Spotlight has distanced itself and Liberty Lobby from the LaRouchians over the issue of the LaRouchians' questionable and illegal fundraising activities.
Space Bunny says:
My main problem with pushing of focus on Bilderburg is that is disempowering. We don't need to discover hidden truths about who controls our destinies but to forge revolution though our own self activity. Our oppression is open under capitalist social relations, it is not particularly relevant what goes on at Bilderberg, what the plots are made, to understanding the key to the creation of a true human community with the world held in common.
That I hope to expand on in a text when I find time. It is a pity I do not have text prepared now. I have other priorities. I reckon where I am at and what I say has little resonance with those that work with Tony G. My criticisms of Tony G are not so much persuade him or his associates to adopt my world view instead of theirs but to put clear space between them. His views are incompatible with mine. I wish to explain this to those who think they can have one foot in both camps.
Capitalism oppresses us openly. One does not have to have an hidden true revealed to get better of it. I am sure capitalists do conspire but it is not main force of history and there is no useful practice to be had from looking into them. Also it does not surprise me that they have closed meeting; I go to closed political meetings as well. Like minded people with interests in common tend to get together. The power to attack them lies in taking control of our lives back at our end.
The bilderbergers are a group that are ideal for people to project their fantasies onto, in case of Tony Gosling who is main person to push anti- bilderberg stuff in activist milieu it is his believe in Revelations. See his website www.bilderberg.org, he used to have some well dodgy far right links on that site. Also he writes to MPs complaining how Bilderberg undermines the nation state. Is this the way forward?
The lists of people that went around after who attended was bollocks. Most Bilderberg watchers did not even bother to try get near Bilderberg conference. Spotlight's (paper known for it holocaust denial stance) reporter just got drunk and did not stick around for conference, just made his report up. Apart from the dodgy agenda of most anti bilderbergers their research is generally crap when they do any, just usually just repeat each other. I heard of no one photographing people at airport as they came in, cars too fast at meeting place.
The power those who attend Bilderberg meeting hold is not from attending Bilderberg but from there positions they hold in organisations that openly excerise their power. Unless attending so permits other powers such mind control (Lord of the Rings style). That is why to protest at a Bilderburg meeting is not comparable to protesting at the World Bank AGM or the G8.
As Bilderburg is a private meeting that little is publicity released it allows all sorts of people to project there fantasies onto it. For revolutionaries who want to change the world for the good there is little in following Bilderberg.
The letter below is by Eric Lee, who runs the well-known Labourstart site on the net. He has given permission for its further circulation. Basically he has given Tony Gosling the boot after finding that this so-called "Bilderberg expert" and admirer of nazis was using Labourstart's name to add to his left credibility.
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Dear Tony,
As I'm sure you'll recall, when we sat together on that Green Party conference panel in Leicester last November, I cautioned the audience -- and you -- about the dangers of becoming anti-Semitic when one adopts a conspiracy theory of the world. If I remember correctly, you agreed with me. You are concerned about the Bilderberg group, the Masons, and so on, but you made a point of assuring everyone that you are not anti-Semitic.
Imagine my surprise at discovering that among the "Good Links" on your website is a link to the most famous of all anti-Semitic forgeries, the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion". And if this were not enough, your description of the link -- in your own words -- is that this document is "interesting" and "fascinating" and you indicate your own suspicion that it might be evidence of "a Zionist conspiracy" rather than merely "anti-Jewish propaganda".
Though I have not had time to go through all the other links on your page, I understand that several point to the works of well-known Holocaust deniers and other anti-Semites. (Your link to David Irving's site is, fortunately, no longer working.)
It is absolutely unacceptable to us that LabourStart news headlines appear on such a site. I believe that you mislead me -- and others -- when you attempted to distinguish your own conspiracy view of the world from that of the extreme right. Frankly, Tony, it appears that you identify very much with anti-Jewish, extreme Right elements which are correctly perceived by leftists as our enemies.
I have deleted your link from the Labour NewsWire Global Network page and insist that you remove the line of code which provides a Labour NewsWire feed to your page -- immediately.
I am sharing this message with our colleagues in Leicester who invited you and me to that conference. I am happy to see that, at least, they do not link to your website from their own.
Eric Lee
Tony G often uses as a defense his involved in various left leaning groups so it is good people in this group question his involvement
Tony G points to interest of Mike Peters in Bilderberg but does not take on board Mike Peters advice that far right writters such as Antony Sutton offer little help in furthering our understanding of them. Tony Gosling makes mistake of believing that like him Sutton can't be far right as he is against the Nazis in exposing what they believe is the shadowy group of Wall Street bankers that brought both them as well as the bolsheviks to power