On Doug Henwood's Left Business Observer listserve, Art McGee wrote:
>As for Mitchel Cohen and the Greens, it's obvious that they
>are as clueless as ever. They, like a lot of other idiots on
>the Left, don't understand two fundamental things about our
>electoral system: (1) voting in a bourgeois democracy can
>only be part of a tactical strategy, and is not in any way
>an end in and of itself;
Agreed. Of course I understand that. Voting for a Third Party is an answer, just as voting for the Dems or Reps is an answer, depending on what question you are asking. We are asking different questions and so come up with different answers.
The point, however, is to ALLOW PEOPLE TO HAVE THAT CHOICE. Art wants to preclude even that choice, to control from above what choices people have so that they won't ... um, how should I put this? .... make the mistake of coming to their own conclusions about what to do, which may disagree with what Art wants them to do. So therefore, the Dems (and apparently Art) want to squelch that possibility by locking up the electoral choices people have.
>(2) in order to make voting for
>third parties something more than a form of masturbation
>you have to get off your tired, fat asses and FIGHT for the
>adoption of some form of PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION in our
>Federal Elections system.
Well, at least MY ass is not tired or fat. I've been fighting for proportional rep and IRV, and the best way to fight for it is to make the Democratic Party pay for not implementing it. The truth is, with proportional rep or the Condorcet model of IRV, Ralph Nader would have WON THE ELECTION FOR PRESIDENT by several percentage points against Bush or Gore. For that matter, had the Democrats stood up for the disenfranchised Black voters in Florida, instead of selling them down the river, Gore would have carried that state as well by a hefty margin. The fact is, Art, that the Democratic Party leadership would rather strike a deal with the Republicans and hand them the presidency in exchange for committee chairs in Congress -- that's the reason that not a single Democratic Party senator stood up to support the Congressional Black Caucus's call to challenge the elections, to vote against certification.
>When you stop whining and start
>doing that, maybe someone might listen to your stupid ass.
Hey, I'm not the one who is whining. The Greens are going to -- whether you like it or not -- provide the voters of this country with an anti-corporate, anti-war, anti-death penalty, anti-drug wars CHOICE. People could take or or leave it, but that choice will be their's, not yours. Or, maybe you'll be one of those standing in the doorway with a bat trying to prevent the Green candidate (Nader, or whoever) from taking part in the debates?
>And let me just say that in case YOU PEOPLE didn't notice,
>Manning Marable and many of the people involved in the Black
>Radical Congress were essentially the only fucking Black
>people in the fucking country who were supporting Nader back
>in 2000.
Nader got a higher percentage of the Black vote nationwide than he did of any other demographic except American-Arab people. If the BRC wants to take credit for the higher levels of sanity in the Black electorate, so be it (I wish it was true that BRC was that well-organized, but I don't believe this to be the case. I just think people have the capacity to figure this stuff out for themselves).
> While many, many, many people on the Left were
>saying TINA, especially progressive Blacks, many Black
>radicals were supporting Nader as a way to send a message to
>the Capitalists and White Supremacists in the Democratic
>Party.
Partly. But I also think that most people are beyond trying to "send a message to the Master". The Greens are clearly NOT about trying to send a message to the Dem or Rep leadership. We're trying to build the capacity we'll need to "overgrow the government", so to speak. I think Lenin's "What Is To Be Done?" is one of the key books we'll all need to read in this coming period (whether it's Dem or Rep in presidency), despite some analytical flaws. It's a manual of how to build organization in a period of intense repression.
>It was basically us and Aaron McGruder, and that was it.
And Aaron McGruder is great! He's the only reason I ever even turn to the comics pages.
>Now Manning has made the strategic decision to support the
>DP candidate, because the reign of racist terror that has
>come down on both domestic people of color and immigrants
>has gotten too far fucking out of control. Fuck you if you
>don't like that.
Oh, please. You really can't be saying that you supported Nader instead of Gore last time because you really didn't realize how despicable Bush and his gang would be. Is that what you are arguing? That your entire analysis was wrong, that you fucked up, that you really didn't know what you were doing when you refrained from endorsing Gore (who is much more progressive than Kerry), and that your actions led to the fascists taking over? If that's what you are saying, then I admire your ability to criticize yourself, even though I disagree totally with your analysis. So if that's the case, why take it out on the Greens? Why take it out on me? That's YOUR problem, your horrible political error. So then the question becomes: You were so wrong last time (using your own position today), what went into leading you to make such a wrong decision, and what have you changed in your approach that makes your position the correct one this time?
>Unlike the pretend Marxists, Manning
>clearly understands Base and Superstructure, and knows
>that infantile principle is not really principle at all.
If Manning thinks that the way to build an alternative apparatus to the interests of the ruling class (which continue to impose themselves upon us regardless of WHO is elected) is to support the evil of two lessers, he's entitled to state that viewpoint, although I disagree with it. But the Greens' strategy is EXACTLY to build the kind of organization that will be able to contest power which we will need regardless of who wins the presidency. You don't do that by falling into the extremely idealistic position (in the worst sense of that word) of proposing that the underlying contradictions and interests of the ruling class will be suppressed or regulated better by one bourgeois candidate over another. First, it's incorrect; and second, that's no way to build a fighting organization.
>By the way:
>
>1. I am a registered member of the Green Party.
>
>2. I am an African-American (descendent of slaves, not a
>voluntary immigrant)
>
>3. In 2000, I voted for Ralph Nader.
>
>4. In November, I and most Black people will vote for
>Kerry (or whoever is on the Democratic Party ticket).
Well, we'll see if Nader's percentages go up or down among Black voters. Right now, Nader is at 6 percent overall DESPITE the intensely negative press and liberal attacks on the Greens. This number is greater than he was at at the same point last election cycle.
>5. After the election, I will continue my activities to
>organize and build movements towards a classless society,
>which is how change will truly come about.
Yea, and what about BEFORE the election?
>5. Fuck Mitchel Cohen.
Depends how cute you are. Let's take a trip to New Paltz together.
>6. Fuck the NY Green Party.
Ditto.