From: BklynMagus
Dear List:
Charles wrote:
> However, I wouldn't say "violence" is not like a ball that just rolls.
(CB: This was a typo: I wouldn't say "violence" is like a ball that just rolls)
I come from a different place. As witness today: the abuses in the prison, the beheading, what next? As I wrote in a post earlier today: violence calls forth violence in unenlightened minds (false consciousness).
^^^^^ CB: There are revenge cycles. However, defense of the revolution if necessary to survive must not be forgone because of the abstract principle that often violence begets violence. I understand you are enunciating a Buddhist principle, but I am not discussing a revolution being carried out based on Buddhist principles.
^^^^^
> The partisans of the working class should not oppose the establishment of a
socialist state because it will make mistakes and even commit crimes against
socialist or working class interests and principles ( repression that is not
of counterrevolution, in short).
Mistakes are allowable, but what are the parameters of acceptable mistakes? How long can the mistakes continue to be made? As far as I know queers still cannot join the Communist Party in Cuba.
^^^^^ CB: Actually, me as a fuckin' Yankee , I got infinite patience with the "mistakes" of the Cuban Revolution. Who the hell am I to judge their mistakes, but specifically ,no I would not dissolve the Cuban revolution if what you say is true. I'm not sure what you are saying would follow the breach of the "how long" time limit you imply. Are you saying that if they keep making the mistake of not allowing queers join the Communist Party in Cuba , then the revolution should be ended ?
^^^^^
Commit crimes against "working class interests?" On what grounds are these crimes justified? What "working class interests" justified the persecution of queers?
^^^^^
CB: My assertion was that in many revolutions there have been unjustified crimes, i.e. uses of violence and force that could not be justified as defending the revolution from counterrevolutionaries. Nonetheless, the solution was not to windup the revolution , hand over things to imperialism. Specifically, whatever persecution of queers there has been in Cuba , does not mean the revolution or government or Party should be dissolved or removed from power.
^^^^^
Also check out this site about sodomy laws:
http://www.sodomylaws.org/world/cuba/cuba.htm
Also: Amnesty International
Cubra Libre? NOT. LOL.
> I do think it is well placed in the case of Cuba. Despite errors, Cuba is a
shining example of a successful revolution.
Here I disagree. The treatment of queers was a shining example of human depravity.
Brian Dauth Queer Buddhist Resister
^^^^^ CB: ok
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