From: "Brian Charles Dauth"
> No, American human beings do not have the standing to judge the revolution
in Cuba until they get their government off Cuba's back.
Well, we will disagree. I am a queer human being and I am going to judge those who oppress queers. It is important to get the American government off Cuba's back; it is equally important to get non-queers off my sisters' and brothers' back.
To me the right to control one's body is a basic right enjoyed by all human beings and should be defended in every society/culture.
> As an American, that should be your priority action.
For me, it is an equal priotrity to end queer oppression wherever it occurs.
^^^^^
CB: If in your political activism for gay liberation you ignore the impact of your activism on other liberation movements, you will be categorized as a rightwing, gay liberationist. You won't have left allies in whatever specific efforts and activities ( rallies, protests , etc) you undertake trying to impact Cuba's policies on gay rights.
In other words, look around you. There are constant attacks on Cuba by the rightwing and liberals. Your public criticism of Cuba on gay rights will be used to support invasion, blockade ,etc. It will be used to bolster the claim that it is terrible ,anti-democratic country.
Thus, your public attacks on Cuba on gay issues is likely to cause the Cubans to group you with the rightwing and liberals AND THEREBY IGNORE AND REJECT YOUR PROTEST. In other words, practically speaking you are less likely to achieve your goal of improving gay rights in Cuba by making your protest public. You will be lumped with that author whose book was made a film that Todd posted on. Your arguments for gay liberation will be bourgeois, and rejected on that basis. If you think that type of attack will help gay rights in Cuba, I think you are wrong.
^^^^
> Your questions above do not make clear who you are proposing act.
That is exactly my question. What can be done? As I said before, comments like yours that call the revolution in Cuba a "shining example" are counterproductive. Queer oppression tarnishes such examples and is easily pointed to by our enemies in an attempt to discredit revolutionary change.
^^^^^ CB: Praising the Cuban revolution is very important in order to try and win people to support it and end the U.S. blockade, retain hope among leftists that socialism hasn't been wiped out in the world. Praise for its socialism should not be silenced for its shortcomings with respect to gay liberation.
^^^
> If you are talking about Americans, they should privately make complaints.
And Bush is reading the letters protesting the war in Iraq. LOL. These private complaints are going to accomplish what? There needs to be public action/outrage to end queer oppression.
I have started to study some Lenin and if I am understanding him (I do not claim any expertise), he believed that enlightened consciousness would have to be developed and one could not rely on it just to occur. Clearly, some force has to be applied to get Cuba to make advances on queer issues.
It is great to be in solidarity with Cubans, but if the cost of solidarity is silence on queer oppression (or apologetics), the price is much too high.
Silence = Death
^^^^^ CB: No the Cubans are not killing people for being gay. This is a careless and exaggerated assertion in this specific context and discusion.
^^^^^
People either seem to hate Castro and the revolution or love him and it. Why is it so hard to have a nuanced (middle path) view that many things were right, but in one area at least he pulled a big-time boner and it needs to be fixed?
^^^^^ CB: I don't have statements from Castro individually on homosexuality.
Castro and Cuba have been criticized by Yankee leftists who support them overall. To repeat, leftists _should_ blunt their public criticism because it feeds into the gigantic , anti-communist, anti-Cuban rev discourse that dominates Yankeedom, and threatens invasion, causes the blockade, etc.
^^^^^^
> I'd say the Cuban revolution is mainly based in classical Marxist
revolutionary theory which does not have a significant component on sexual
liberation, and specifically not queer liberation.
Got it. I think that may be its major flaw. It was a good basis in its time, but we are over 40 years removed from that time. Queer theory has happened. I think a major part of the present revolutionary struggle will center on gender and sexuality. This struggle will help bring enlightened consciousness out of false consciousness.
^^^^^^
CB: What is your queer theory ?
^^^^^
> I don't have them at hand, but in recent years I have seen many articles
and posts on these left email lists on gay liberation trends in Cuba, such
as popular Cuban films about gay love , etc.
According to my friends inside and outside Cuba, Cuban and non-Cuban it has gotten better, but there is still a climate of fear.
> But I'd say the particular people in power "should be removed" (although
how is not clear), but not replaced by imperialists or Miami Cubans or
Russian bourgeoisie or whatever.
&
> Who are you saying should replace the Party?
I am not saying the Party or particular people should be replaced. I think the revolutionary process has gotten stuck in a rut of false consciousness around the issue of gender/sexuality.
^^^^^^
CB: I don't see where the revolutionary process has false consciousness about gender. What are you referring to ?
Marxism started out ahead of bourgeois ideology on women's liberation and has advanced since then.
^^^^^^
My question is how to bring pressure on the party to get out of this rut and stop oppressing queers . Like you I think it is difficult to know "how" to effect change. In Cuba it is even more difficult since you cannot be queer and a party member. It is a catch-22.
It is as if in this case the party itself is guilty of counterrevolutionary activity by oppressing queers.
On the other hand, the Cuban revolution is like the "little revolution that could"; it continues on despite U.S. pressure. It seems churlish to criticize it in light of what it accomplished, but it has gotten stuck.
^^^^^ CB: I wouldn't say it has gotten stuck. It is progressing, including making advances on queer liberation. Focus in on the progress on gay rights a little more, praise it.
^^^^^
> It would be a gross misrepresentation of what I am saying on this thread
to claim I have a "predeliction" for violence or favor "unlimited" violence;
or that I am saying Marx did.
I did not say that you did.
> This is basically the new problem (!) that Marxists face based on the
experience of the first efforts to build socialism: the bourgeoisie have the
means and the moral degeneracy to play chicken with holocaust and even
species annihilation in defending capitalism.
Which in part fuels my anti-violence position. We disagree here in that I do believe violence escalates very quickly (or gathers momentum like a rolling ball) once it is embarked upon. As you note the technology of death available today is absolutely over the top. Is violent struggle realistic with so much death technology in the hands of the capitalists?
^^^^^ CB: It would be violent self-defense. If you make a rev, the counterreev will come ( that's a law of revolution). When it does, you have no choice but to fight and defend. See Venezuela today, for example.
^^^^^^^
> The American people do not. In other words, it was the Soviet Marxist
system that put a limit on how much violence or potential violence to
humanity that should be countenanced in defense of a socialist revolution.
It goes back to the Zen koan I cited previously: sometimes an unjust peace is better than a just war.
^^^^^ CB: Marxism kinda takes the opposite position on this, though, there are examples of Communist governments retreating rather than fighting.
^^^
> I don't know of any discussion by Marx of same-sex sex, except he _may_
have made some anti-same sex remarks in private letters. Engels made public
anti-same sex statements. However, neither advocated violence against same
sexers.
I have read their comments and find them negligible. Better if Engels had shut his mouth, but it was the tenor of the times.