[lbo-talk] Re: Queer Havanans

BklynMagus magcomm at ix.netcom.com
Thu May 20 13:55:03 PDT 2004


Dear List:

Charles writes:


> It is a definition that some others would share, but what other
definition of "radical" did you think I would use but mine?

None other.


> What's your definition of "radical"?

A person dedicated to ending suffering and bringing enlightenment.


> I forget what your point is here ? The left has moved in the
direction you favor over the years.

That the left still has a long way to go on sexual and queer issues. They are not as advanced as you seem to think. There are a good number of leftists who are anti-queer; anti-porn; anti-SM, etc. In my work as a sexual activist I have found that most vanilla leftists are not involved/concerned with these issues.


> If you are saying that the radicals in Cuba have not made enough
progress for you, and that is disunity with you, and so you join the liberal critics of Cuba, go ahead and do your thing.

I will. Just as you cite disunity in your way.


> Uhuh. Do I understand that you support the communist revolution

As long as it is a Buddhist-communist-queer revolution.


> Right now it's more important to get the Americans out of
everywhere, and stop them from "supporting" anything anywhere, except in their own country.

I think it is equally important to stop the juggernaut of heterosexual imperialism.


> Software or hardware ? Anyway "bred in the bone" seems to mean
inherited in genes ( and proteins ? :>)) from parents, not learned after being born.

Homo desire is in the genes. Homo sex practices can be taught.


> What does he (Fone) say?

In brief, Fone shows the rise of homophobia to be related to the decline of the Roman Empire and rise of Christianity. Homosexuality was seen as an affront to the diety/nature.


> That's your definition of "the Hitlers". Mine is more historically-based
in what Hitler actually did.

Hitler slaughtered queers on the Night of the Long Knives and sent others to concentration camps.

After the slaughter Hitler said in a speech: "In this hour I was responsible for the fate of the German people, and thereby I become the supreme judge of the German people. I gave the order to shoot the ringleaders in this treason." This event was a turning point in Hitler's rise to power: he showed that by eradicating vermin (queers) he was serving the interest of the German people.

Jenny writes:


> What does he (she?) think is the material basis for anti-gay ideas
(if any)?

Just as homosex practices are constructed on top of homo desire, homo- phobia is built upon same sex distaste. As a gay man I can say that the thought of having sex with a woman is distasteful. I do not hate women nor do I demonize them. It is just that the thought of sexual relations with them is distasteful, like the thought of anything with cocoanut flavor.

Two years after Fone's book came out, a study was published by the University of Arkansas that said homophobia was not fear-based, but disgust-based. I believe that humans (being the clever primates with opposable thumbs that we are) hit upon this natural distaste and constructed upon it the scaffolding of homophobia. The natural (but minor) distaste was amplified until it became a major revulsion. Then those who one wished to demonize were accused of homosex in an attempt to mark them with the stench of queerness.

An example: in the 1950's the right associated communists (pinkos) with homosexuals. Communists associated counterrevolutionaries with homosexuality as well. Each group (though opposed to each other) used homophobia to smear those it wanted to attack.

When you want to discredit a person of group you try to associate them somehow with homosex.


> Who benefits?

Those who want to discredit others.


> Does Fone (or do you) see the left and the right having different reasons for it?

On both the right and the left there have been attempts to demonize others. Labeling others as queer is a good way to get that process going and maintain it. Think how often homosexuality is cited when one person/culture complains about another. Homophobia has been cultivated through the centuries to serve as an all-purpose tool to tar one's enemies with.

Brian Dauth Queer Buddhist Resister



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