[lbo-talk] response to Woj

Doug Henwood dhenwood at panix.com
Thu May 27 10:22:52 PDT 2004


[This bounced because html coding increased its size almost threefold. PLAIN TEXT PLEASE!!!!]

Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:18:54 -0400 Message-ID: <673030F0EB746B4684294196207763DB33F045 at cwp-m1.liunet.edu> From: "Louis Kontos" <Louis.Kontos at liu.edu> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>

this is an interesting analysis but you make a number of problematic assumptions. First, you assume that presidential candidates present their agendas in a fairly accurate way and that people have a fairly accurate view of those policies. This would mean that propaganda is not very effective. Second, you assume that people are ideological in a straightforward sense, i.e., that conservative people vote for conservative candidates. But when self-professed liberals and conservatives are asked to define and explain their beliefs, they are, for the most part, all over the map. Only ideological 'extremists' appear ideologically consistent. Third, you assume that the Nation and other such publications are not as popular as Fox TV because they are left-leaning, rather than analytical versus sensational. I would also add that consistently, since the 1930s, over 70% of people support a New Deal agenda. But no politicians are offerring such a thing, and when one comes along, e.g., Nader or Kucinich, a conspiracy instantly materializes between the major parties and among media pundits and academic experts to discredit them, to cause fear, etc. Louis Kontos

-----Original Message-----

From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org on behalf of Wojtek Sokolowski

Sent: Thu 5/27/2004 12:03 PM

To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org

Cc:

Subject: [lbo-talk] Political leaning of the US population

Doug:

>

> Far more than 5% of the U.S. pop would be classified as "liberal."

> Probably about 5% would be classifiable as "left," leaving aside

> definitions. For a social scientist, you throw around a lot of

> data-free generalizations.

>

> Around 2/3 of Americans favor affirmative action and

> government-guaranteed universal health care, "even if it means

> raising taxes"

I would not depend on surveys measuring attitudes on an issue or two

whose "ownership" is claimed by this or that political faction. There

are numerous problems with such surveys - chief among them being that

different people define issues in their own personal way regardless of

the claimed 'political ownership." Thus, a person may support the right

to abortion, but reject the feminist interpretation of it or even oppose

the idea of women's rights to choose altogether.

For that reason, I would rather depend on the behavior as an indicator

of political attitudes. Examples of such behavior include voting,

purchasing publications, or interaction in everyday life.

Take voting. Conservative Republicans consistently receive nearly half

of the popular votes if the opposing candidate is a centrist Democrat

(cf. Bush vs. Gore), but that support skyrockets if the Democrat is even

slightly leaning to the left. Such was the case even the supposedly

"liberal" 1960s and 1970s cf. McGovern 37.5% vs. Nixon 60.7% in 1972.

Another indicator is that solidly conservative or right wing "third

parties" command a much higher popular support that solidly progressive

or left wing "third parties. Thus Nader attracted 2.7% of the popular

vote in 2000 and 0.7% on 1996; Anderson (nor exactly a leftie, to be

sure) - 6.6% in 1980. By contrast Perot received 8.4% in 1996, and

18.9% in 1992. Wallace got 13.5% in 1968 - the heyday of the supposedly

liberal era.

http://www.uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/frametextj.html

These numbers suggest that regardless of how people answer opinion

polls, they prefer conservative candidates to center-left ones, and the

far right outnumbers far-left by the factor 5:1 (Nader in the

"conservative" 2000 vs. Wallace in the "liberal" 1968).

What is more, the left leaning publications, such as The Nation, Mother

Jones, or even New Yorker, are not very popular. If the Us population

was so overwhelmingly supportive of the positions "owned" by the Left,

one would expect the sales of these publications to be much higher,

especially that there not that many titles on the Left.

Another area is interaction in everyday life. People may be publicly

supportive (or not dismissive) of affirmative action - but how much

inter-racial dating there in the US? Forget the dating - how many times

employees of different racial backgrounds go to lunch together? Or take

another issue - using public transit. In most urban (outside the NYC or

DC where it is often the only viable alternative) people avoid it

because it used predominantly by minorities. They also oppose transit

line extensions for the very same reason.

The same can be said about schools. What is more, people tend to

support ballot measures to fund police but oppose funding for public

schools, especially in areas with high numbers of ethnic minorities.

To conclude, I would like to reiterate my argument that the conservative

and right wing politics seem to enjoy a much higher popular support than

left-leaning politics. I would use the Nixon-McGovern split as a proxy

to estimate the popular support of center-left (McGovern) vs a

conservative candidate (Nixon) which is 38% vs. 61%. I would use the

Nader vs. Wallace split (2.7% vs. 13.5%)as a proxy to measure the

popular support of left vs a far right candidate in the US.

PS. Most of the people with whom I came to a direct contact during my

24 or so year stay in the US (longer than in any other country) were

fairly centrist, even by the European standards. But then I have worked

mainly in government or academic institutions, and lived mainly in

Northern CA and Northeast (NYC - DC area). Judging what I see in

central PA (my wife's home state) - which is fairly representative of

anything outside the SF Bay Area, NYC, Boston, DC areas - it is solidly

conservative and often bordering on fascism.

Wojtek



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