Al-Jazirah Interviews Russia's Lavrov on Terrorism, Iraq, Iran, Israel, Gaza Plan Doha Al-Jazirah Satellite Channel Television in Arabic 1730 GMT 15 Sep 04
[Interview with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov by Akram Khuzam in Moscow; date and place not given; in Russian with superimposed translation into Arabic; translated from the Arabic; from the "Today's Encounter" program--recorded]
[Text] [Khuzam] Dear viewers, we welcome you to another episode of Today's Encounter. We will be interviewing Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. Recently, the Russian defense minister said that Russia has the right to and will direct deterrent strikes at centers of terrorism in any area in the world. Does this announcement not contradict the assertions that you personally made on the need to respect international law? In general, what is going on? Please explain to us what this announcement means?
[Lavrov] We must respect international law but international law, especially Article 51 of the UN Charter, recognizes the right of self-defense. Moreover, UN Security Council resolutions that were adopted after the 11th of September 2001 unanimously declared that the right of self-defense is not confined to responding to classical military attacks but also covers military attacks that fall within terrorist operations. The contemporary international law is based on the fact that if a certain country is exposed to a terrorist attack and if there is a ground to believe that such an attack might recur, this country can take the necessary measures to lessen or remove this existing threat as an implementation of its right of self-defense. There is no doubt that terrorism continues to threaten Russia.
[Khuzam] US Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw supported Russia in its declaration on terrorism, contrary to the EU stand. Do you not fear that, after possible Russian attacks, the Americans and the British would announce that there was a Russian aggression or human rights violations, as happened in the past?
[Lavrov] I believe that your question is only theoretical, a hypothetical question. That Russia has the right to self-defense against terrorist attacks and the right to remove or lessen the threat of terrorist attacks does not at all mean that we would begin exercising this right all over the world as of tomorrow. Officials have already stated that this right would be exercised when the necessary proofs have been made available. They also stressed that the use of force would be the last resort in accordance with our right of self-defense. They further emphasized that they would continue to fight international terrorism in coordination and in cooperation with the international community within the antiterrorism coalition.
[Khuzam] Many observers have noticed that the Russian rhetoric on international terrorism increased after what happened in Beslan, Moscow, Rostov, and Tula. What exactly is international terrorism, and what does your claim mean that international terrorism has declared war against Russia? Can you not think of the possibility of a fierce war inside Russia with certain groups that are not satisfied with the policy of President Putin?
[Lavrov] Who declared war? I believe that the terrorist war is characterized by the fact that terrorism has no borders or national identity. As for those who inspire terrorism, we cannot link them at all times with definite geographical areas or certain official structures. We can also follow what some figures have said recently, including the statements of Maskhadov, who, despite expressing his condolences, added that terrorist attacks would be inevitable unless the policy of the Russian Federation on Chechnya has been changed. Therefore, my answer to the question is: Whoever declared a terrorist war against Russia must be pursued, not only by relying on the information that the Russian intelligence agencies possess but by looking at television screens where we have enough testimony about those who are interested in continuing terrorist attacks against Russia, fragmenting the unity of the Russian Federation, and creating a crisis in the northern Caucasus region. Undoubtedly, these forces are part of international terrorism, and international sabotage, the new _expression that some journalists have started to employ. These forces are outside the Russian territory but I do not rule out the possibility that some of those who carry out the attacks are in the Chechen territory as well.
[Khuzam] Do you have irrefutable proofs that Aslan Maskhadov and Shamil Basayev were involved in planning the Beslan tragedy?
[Lavrov] I am absolutely certain that Shamil Basayev personally led this operation.
[Khuzam] We heard sharp criticism from you concerning Washington's call for the need to negotiate with Aslan Maskhadov. Now, in your comments about what happened, you did not mention his name. Please explain.
[Lavrov] I have not excluded Maskhadov when I answered your previous question. I mentioned him in previous answers where his statements to the Georgian media were mentioned. What a coincidence. He said that it was impossible to avoid terrorist operations unless the policy of the Russian Federation toward Chechnya has been changed. This is at least a direct incitement for terrorism if not indeed an admission that he stands behind all of this. Therefore, calling for negotiations with him in addition to statements issued by some Western capitals to search for means of political settlement with him--meaning that Maskhadov would be one of our negotiating partners--cannot be considered to be a manifestation of the developing partnership between Russia and the United States and between Russia and Britain and other countries.
[Khuzam] What is wrong with negotiating with him especially if this leads to ending the war in Chechnya?
[Lavrov] This will not end the war in Chechnya but will mean Russia's defeat in its war on terrorism because any negotiations with these individuals mean that we entertain hopes that they can play a political role in the Chechen Republic. It will mean only one thing; namely, that they will win the possibility of continuing their policy, the policy of terrorism, and to continue their activities against other parts of Russia.
We have provided them with an opportunity in the past, an opportunity to develop within Chechnya and to enjoy full autonomy after the (Pavyort) agreements but they ended up robbing their republic and launching aggression against the neighboring Republic of Daghestan. Exactly at that time our antiterrorism campaign started. In answer to your question, I would like to ask another question: What harm will there be if Europe responds to the Bin-Ladin call, implement some measures, and accept his conditions? Then Bin-Ladin would leave Europe alone. What is wrong with that? If Europe categorically rejects any negotiations with him then why should we negotiate with his pupils and followers, as Europe wants us to do?
[Khuzam] Let us talk about the statements by officials of the Russian security agencies on the participation of 10 Arabs in the Beslan tragedy. These tragedies were met with divergent reactions but eventually everyone started to ask about how true these statements were. Do you have proofs in this regard?
[Lavrov] Taking into consideration the details of the tragedy, it would not be possible to know the identity of the bodies but information about the presence of Arabs among the terrorists have been confirmed. Moreover, information about the presence of others from other nationalities among them was also confirmed. There is a Russian, a Ukrainian, a Chechen, and an Ingushian. Of course this information is being investigated. However, casting doubt on this information is strange. If there are among these individuals persons of various nationalities, it means that this is a fact. I do not understand the reasons for this surprise. We have mentioned the facts and at the same time we always reiterated that terrorists have no nationality, religion, culture, or any ethnic affiliations. We are facing international terror organizations. The presence of these people in various gangs, whether in Beslan or in any other places where terrorists perpetrate their despicable crimes, does not at all means that the guilty one is Islam, the Orthodox faith, the Catholic faith, or any other religion.
For your information, I returned form the Middle East a few days ago where I visited Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria. I can assure you that the desire in these countries to get rid of international terrorism is no less intense than it is here in Russia or in Europe, Asia, or Africa. They all suffer from this evil, including the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. We are holding a dialogue on this issue with all our partners and this is what is being talked about in meetings with the Arab leaders and the officials of the Gulf Cooperation Council states.
===== Nu, zayats, pogodi!
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