[lbo-talk] Victory/Defeat Defeat/Victory Re: Military above criticism

Carrol Cox cbcox at ilstu.edu
Mon Nov 1 10:50:45 PST 2004


(I'm depending on memory, so details aren't quite correct but the substance is.)

(a) Some time after the Vietnam War ended, a u.s. officer visiting in Vietnam and chatting with a Vietnamese officer, said, "You know, you never defeated us in a battle." The Vietnamese officer said, "Yes, that is true. It is also irrelevant."

(b) About 34/35 years ago the u.s. army in Vietnam won a great battle (afterwards known as Hamburger Hill). After four days of fierce fighting, they overran a strongly defended Vietnamese position (heavy casualties on both sides). A week or so later the u.s. troops withdrew. This was perhaps the u.s. victory that finally led directly to u.s. defeat in Vietnam. No u.s. officer ever again in the war ordered a direct assault on fixed Vietnamese positions!

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I don't know when the U.S. will actually recognize defeat in Iraq and begin looking around for some face-saving way of withdrawing (perhaps adopting a version of one the various proposals by leftist wankers). But it is reasonably certain that the event which leads to such a recognition on the part of the u.s. leaders will be some great victory such as is perhaps now impending in Fallujah.

Of course a really united and growing anti-war movement that might have emerged had not most of the cadre for such a movement deserted to the ABB position -- such a movement might have saved a hundred thousand lives or so, bringing about a year or two sooner u.s. recognition of defeat.

Carrol



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