In the following interchange between, first Doug:
>So say Kerry won Ohio - he still would have lost the pop vote by 3m+. When
>Bush lost the pop vote by 500k and won the electoral vote, we denounced
>that as an antidemocratic abomination, which it was. But while 500k is
>virtual tie, a 3m pop vote lead is serious. Would we want to call a Kerry
>electoral college victory under those circs legitimate?
>
>The fraud & intimidation should be investigated and denounced. But saying
>"Kerry won" is delusional and hypocritical.
>
>Doug
And then John:
>"No it's not. This is the way the Repubs would >have played it and so by necessity it is the way >the Dems should. Make the Repubs choke on their >own shit. It isn't always about what's fair and >right. If you want power you have to take it any >legal way you can. The Dems should wait until all >votes are counted and demand that "spoiled" votes >in minority districts be counted and take power. >Tell the Repubs if they don't like it they can >work to abolish the EC but until then shut the >fuck up and take the loss of the EC with >"graciousness and dignity so we can work together >blah, blah, blah..." No one can seriously doubt >that if the tables were turned Bush would tell >people that the only way anyone is getting the >keys to the White House from him before all the >votes are counted will be to pry it from his
>cold dead hand. Millions would then applaud him >for his resoluteness. By the ignorant standards >of the EC Kerry won.
John Thornton"
RESPONSE: My instict is that of John's. But I guess all this does pose a problem doesn't it:
Why didn't the Democratic Party take a more overt real stand against any of this - from putting Dean on, to right down to challenging Ohio etc?
Most on the list somehow appear to see the capitalist class I think in an "abstract sense" - as willing to allow a 'fair race'; and as some of them sort of able to tolerate profit-cutting for the benefit of the workers.
Is it really outrageously conspiratorial to suggest that the capitalist class - in large and united bulk - have decided they need Bush Imperialist Attacks abroad; & Bush Savagery Domestically?
I do not think the capitalist class of the USA - as a whole - have anything to gain from the Democrats in a major way. They do, from the Republicans at this stage.
There have been many speeches on this list railing at the American 'people'. There have been others railing at the 'ultra-leftists'. I suggest that these peopel need to re-examien thier so-called "realities".